4 ms·

oh mozilla, why don't you just focus on Firefox. That is all we want.

by soapdog 6mo ago

gianthard 6mo ago
RIP Firefox OS
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
data-ottawa 6mo ago
I agree with you, there are 1,000 different chat apps and just one Firefox. And the world needs Firefox more than it knows. It looks like they might want to get into hosting/selling services to users on this. From the FAQ: > Is there going to be a hosted version if I don't want to deploy it myself? > Yes, we are planning to launch Thunderbolt for regular users but we do not have a release date yet.
- dralley 6mo ago
  There is "only one Firefox" but Firefox exists in a market that is not just commoditized, but subsidized to the tune of billions by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world. The world may need Firefox but it's funny how people complain about Mozilla's dependence on Google while also complaining about every attempt to become more financially independent from Google.
  - techjamie 6mo ago
    They could start getting some of that goodwill back by not paying their CEO a multi-million dollar salary and opening donations to actually help fund Firefox.
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      Frankly, https://opencollective.com/servo https://opencollective.com/servo is a better place to donate by now.
roryirvine 6mo ago
This is from MZLA Technologies, so is a sister product to Thunderbird rather than Firefox.
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  [flagged]
SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Kye 6mo ago
  Firefox started at 0% when IE was more dominant than Chrome is today. Nothing is certain.
  - SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
    Firefox hit a peak of 32% and has fallen ever since. Effectively Firefox crashed at the same time IE did, and I can’t see in what way Mozilla ever attempted to recover.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      Now correlate that with when the organization was hijacked by its management into no longer being interested in making a good browser.
- Wolfrich 6mo ago
  What the heck are you talking about? This is from the Thunderbird group not the firefox group...
- lurkshark 6mo ago
  By that logic wouldn’t it be pretty much over for Mac OS as well? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share
dralley 6mo ago
People "want" a lot of contradictory things. People "want" them to be less financially reliant on Google, while also "focusing" on a browser in a market that is entirely commoditized and subsidized by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world - and having a wholly implementation independent browser engine when it's so massively difficult and capital intensive that even Microsoft gave up on it.
- eesmith 6mo ago
  I want them to actively seek foreign sovereign tech funding which come with stipulations that commit Mozilla to certain levels of privacy and anonymity. I want them to go cap-in-hand to other countries and say "if you don't fund us then you are letting the US and surveillance capitalism get between your citizens and their government" and "do you really know what Chrome is doing with your data?" I don't want to pretend they are simply part of a browser marketplace, but rather have them realize they are part of a civil rights effort, with powerful non-market forces they can ally with. And I want those governments to commit to progressive enhancement guidelines like https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressive-enhancement https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi... so new alternatives like Ladybird can start, and further require their agencies to test on a Firefox branch with no AI, no location tracking, full ad-blocking, etc. because while the market is free to ignore certain non-profitable users, a government should not be allowed to ignore some of its citizens. I don't see a contradiction there.
- pier25 6mo ago
  Having the best browser should be Mozilla's first priority. Investing on AI is not going to make them less financially reliant on Google.
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  I don't think these are contradictory, you're listing what many have wanted all along. There are funding models that would support exactly the above. Microsoft stopped building their own browser engine because it didn't suit their business needs and they could still get a controlling share with significantly less effort by recycling webkit/blink for the umpteenth time. That makes total sense for them. Mozilla has, in the past, guided and pushed back on corporate interests. Today, a large portion of the web now stands, built from the bones of the original khtml project, which was unceremoniously made by a handful of volunteers on the KDE project. Let's not pretend a rendering engine it's an entirely _impossible_ task. It is a LOT of work, and I laud the effortor of the few tireless individuals that make it their work, but in the end it's another piece of software, not unlike an OS. The history goes: KHTML -> WebKit -> Blink Meanwhile: Mosaic -> Netscape -> Gecko Maybe we find maintaining the second lineage is too great a burden and the web just becomes a defacto standard, guided entirely by 3 corporations. It's not what we want, but I guess at this point it's probably what we deserve.
stormed 6mo ago
The anti-trust lawsuits with Google have Mozilla realizing they can't just be a company kept afloat by Google. Mozilla's priorities have been pretty complacent, basically just maintaining Firefox, sometimes Thunderbird, and a couple side services that have little financial incentives. The current state of Mozilla is pretty odd since they rebranded to make it more apparent they're a non-profit, while also attempting to become more profitable pushing out new products and services.
eipi10_hn 6mo ago
Why is this related to Firefox?
- rothific 6mo ago
  It's not. Mozilla has been more than Firefox for a long time.
  - dotancohen 6mo ago
    To be clear, it's not from the Mozilla Corporation (which develops Firefox), it's from MZLA Technologies (which develops Thunderbird). Both bodies are under the Mozilla Foundation.
maxloh 6mo ago
Mozilla needs money to support the development of Firefox (and the payroll of its high-salary executives). For now, they mainly rely on Google for that money. Google pays them to avoid antitrust cases, to show the courts that they are not a monopoly and that "alternatives" exist. For example, the DOJ once proposed that Google be forced to sell off Chrome. However, if another entity has control over your budget, they also have control over your product. If Firefox becomes "too good" to be a true competitor in the consumer space, the funding might be reduced or even cut off. Creating a new source of revenue allows Mozilla to improve Firefox even beyond the point Google feels "comfortable" with.
- yencabulator 6mo ago
  Mozilla could stop doing everything else and slow burn their existing $1B into developer salaries over the next decade. They are actively choosing not to.
  - maxloh 6mo ago
    And then what? Just go bankrupt after a decade? That's entirely unsustainable.
    - yencabulator 6mo ago
      1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. 2. 1 billion dollars is a lot of money. Even the interest off it is huge. 3. 10 years is a very long time in tech. 4. I would greatly prefer the money Mozilla earned due to Firefox being a thing was put into developing Firefox, yes. The current Mozilla organization seems to be a mechanism for providing third homes for the executives, starting projects nobody wanted them to start, sullying the Firefox brand with them, and then abandoning them. There's a VC cancer infesting the supposed "free software community" called Mozilla.
      - glenstein 6mo ago
        >1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. Wait, what? I thought your whole premise from one comment ago was that they "stop doing everything" and exclusively slow burn away their endowment. They're dead by 2029 if they do that. If they don't do that, then you're just talking about how they currently operate.
trinsic2 6mo ago
No, email that supports open standards/protocols is really important right now where many email services are trying force IMAP to retire.
extraduder_ire 6mo ago
For a lot of things, I'm glad they don't. A strict focus on just a web browser years ago would mean we never get rust for instance.

oh mozilla, why don't you just focus on Firefox. That is all we want.

by soapdog 6mo ago

oh mozilla, why don't you just focus on Firefox. That is all we want.

gianthard 6mo ago

RIP Firefox OS

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

data-ottawa 6mo ago

I agree with you, there are 1,000 different chat apps and just one Firefox. And the world needs Firefox more than it knows. It looks like they might want to get into hosting/selling services to users on this. From the FAQ: > Is there going to be a hosted version if I don't want to deploy it myself? > Yes, we are planning to launch Thunderbolt for regular users but we do not have a release date yet.

dralley 6mo ago
There is "only one Firefox" but Firefox exists in a market that is not just commoditized, but subsidized to the tune of billions by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world. The world may need Firefox but it's funny how people complain about Mozilla's dependence on Google while also complaining about every attempt to become more financially independent from Google.
- techjamie 6mo ago
  They could start getting some of that goodwill back by not paying their CEO a multi-million dollar salary and opening donations to actually help fund Firefox.
  - yencabulator 6mo ago
    Frankly, https://opencollective.com/servo https://opencollective.com/servo is a better place to donate by now.

roryirvine 6mo ago

This is from MZLA Technologies, so is a sister product to Thunderbird rather than Firefox.

SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
[flagged]

SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago

[flagged]

Kye 6mo ago
Firefox started at 0% when IE was more dominant than Chrome is today. Nothing is certain.
- SV_BubbleTime 6mo ago
  Firefox hit a peak of 32% and has fallen ever since. Effectively Firefox crashed at the same time IE did, and I can’t see in what way Mozilla ever attempted to recover.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - yencabulator 6mo ago
    Now correlate that with when the organization was hijacked by its management into no longer being interested in making a good browser.
Wolfrich 6mo ago
What the heck are you talking about? This is from the Thunderbird group not the firefox group...
lurkshark 6mo ago
By that logic wouldn’t it be pretty much over for Mac OS as well? https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share

dralley 6mo ago

People "want" a lot of contradictory things. People "want" them to be less financially reliant on Google, while also "focusing" on a browser in a market that is entirely commoditized and subsidized by 3 of the 10 largest companies in the world - and having a wholly implementation independent browser engine when it's so massively difficult and capital intensive that even Microsoft gave up on it.

eesmith 6mo ago
I want them to actively seek foreign sovereign tech funding which come with stipulations that commit Mozilla to certain levels of privacy and anonymity. I want them to go cap-in-hand to other countries and say "if you don't fund us then you are letting the US and surveillance capitalism get between your citizens and their government" and "do you really know what Chrome is doing with your data?" I don't want to pretend they are simply part of a browser marketplace, but rather have them realize they are part of a civil rights effort, with powerful non-market forces they can ally with. And I want those governments to commit to progressive enhancement guidelines like https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressive-enhancement https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/technology/using-progressi... so new alternatives like Ladybird can start, and further require their agencies to test on a Firefox branch with no AI, no location tracking, full ad-blocking, etc. because while the market is free to ignore certain non-profitable users, a government should not be allowed to ignore some of its citizens. I don't see a contradiction there.
pier25 6mo ago
Having the best browser should be Mozilla's first priority. Investing on AI is not going to make them less financially reliant on Google.
drzaiusx11 6mo ago
I don't think these are contradictory, you're listing what many have wanted all along. There are funding models that would support exactly the above. Microsoft stopped building their own browser engine because it didn't suit their business needs and they could still get a controlling share with significantly less effort by recycling webkit/blink for the umpteenth time. That makes total sense for them. Mozilla has, in the past, guided and pushed back on corporate interests. Today, a large portion of the web now stands, built from the bones of the original khtml project, which was unceremoniously made by a handful of volunteers on the KDE project. Let's not pretend a rendering engine it's an entirely _impossible_ task. It is a LOT of work, and I laud the effortor of the few tireless individuals that make it their work, but in the end it's another piece of software, not unlike an OS. The history goes: KHTML -> WebKit -> Blink Meanwhile: Mosaic -> Netscape -> Gecko Maybe we find maintaining the second lineage is too great a burden and the web just becomes a defacto standard, guided entirely by 3 corporations. It's not what we want, but I guess at this point it's probably what we deserve.

stormed 6mo ago

The anti-trust lawsuits with Google have Mozilla realizing they can't just be a company kept afloat by Google. Mozilla's priorities have been pretty complacent, basically just maintaining Firefox, sometimes Thunderbird, and a couple side services that have little financial incentives. The current state of Mozilla is pretty odd since they rebranded to make it more apparent they're a non-profit, while also attempting to become more profitable pushing out new products and services.

eipi10_hn 6mo ago

Why is this related to Firefox?

rothific 6mo ago
It's not. Mozilla has been more than Firefox for a long time.
- dotancohen 6mo ago
  To be clear, it's not from the Mozilla Corporation (which develops Firefox), it's from MZLA Technologies (which develops Thunderbird). Both bodies are under the Mozilla Foundation.

maxloh 6mo ago

Mozilla needs money to support the development of Firefox (and the payroll of its high-salary executives). For now, they mainly rely on Google for that money. Google pays them to avoid antitrust cases, to show the courts that they are not a monopoly and that "alternatives" exist. For example, the DOJ once proposed that Google be forced to sell off Chrome. However, if another entity has control over your budget, they also have control over your product. If Firefox becomes "too good" to be a true competitor in the consumer space, the funding might be reduced or even cut off. Creating a new source of revenue allows Mozilla to improve Firefox even beyond the point Google feels "comfortable" with.

yencabulator 6mo ago
Mozilla could stop doing everything else and slow burn their existing $1B into developer salaries over the next decade. They are actively choosing not to.
- maxloh 6mo ago
  And then what? Just go bankrupt after a decade? That's entirely unsustainable.
  - yencabulator 6mo ago
    1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. 2. 1 billion dollars is a lot of money. Even the interest off it is huge. 3. 10 years is a very long time in tech. 4. I would greatly prefer the money Mozilla earned due to Firefox being a thing was put into developing Firefox, yes. The current Mozilla organization seems to be a mechanism for providing third homes for the executives, starting projects nobody wanted them to start, sullying the Firefox brand with them, and then abandoning them. There's a VC cancer infesting the supposed "free software community" called Mozilla.
    - glenstein 6mo ago
      >1. It's unfair to assume that their primary funding source stops in one scenario and not in the other. Wait, what? I thought your whole premise from one comment ago was that they "stop doing everything" and exclusively slow burn away their endowment. They're dead by 2029 if they do that. If they don't do that, then you're just talking about how they currently operate.

trinsic2 6mo ago

No, email that supports open standards/protocols is really important right now where many email services are trying force IMAP to retire.

extraduder_ire 6mo ago

For a lot of things, I'm glad they don't. A strict focus on just a web browser years ago would mean we never get rust for instance.