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Per Blaise Pascal, no they cannot: “All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” We need to keep growing, building, ma

Per Blaise Pascal, no they cannot: “All of humanity’s problems stem from man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.” We need to keep growing, building, making, taking. Some people seem to really love the bustle and creative destruction. I'm in my 40s, and I've always hated it. When I was a child, I wondered if when I grew up, I would fit naturally into the world the way that so many others seemed to. The answer was no. I don't know why people need to be the way they are. I don't feel comfortable in so many normal situations. The things that bother the animals bother me too, but for most people this is unthinkable in the same way that other modes of thought are unthinkable. (eg, when someone who thinks mostly in words learns that some people think only in pictures)

BLKNSLVR 6mo ago
I'd like to say that there may be some human cultures that are / were generally respectful to their environment and the animals therein, but it's hard to say how much that was an 'enforced' position based on their level of technological evolution. I think it's a fundamental rule that the 'rape and pillage' types will always overrun the non-'rape and pillage' types. Much in the same way the sociopaths are able to climb the corporate ladder with relative ease. The nature of nature, seemingly.
- andai 6mo ago
  As a kid I remember wondering why all the countries that exist seem to be jerks. Why aren't there any nice countries? Then I thought about it for another 5 seconds and it made a lot more sense.
  - Pay08 6mo ago
    I'd very much hesitate characterising countries as a whole.
    - andai 6mo ago
      No I mean if you set up a simulation where there's a bunch of entities who are chill and a bunch of entities who are not chill, and then you run the simulation... Wait a minute, that rings a bell! https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/
      - Pay08 6mo ago
        By that logic, every single human should be a psychopath by now.
        BLKNSLVR 6mo ago
        I think that's far from true, going by the simulation game thingy.
        deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - BLKNSLVR 6mo ago
        That game / simulation is fantastic. Thanks for sharing, I'm gonna pass it on at work. More than fantastic, it's beautiful.
      - BobaFloutist 6mo ago
        Cooperation usually beats out competition though. Which is why for all that things look bad right now, alliances of at least modestly liberal countries have handily dominated and out-competed most autocracies. And the autocracies that have thrived have mostly done so by liberalizing, at least a little.
- maccard 6mo ago
  Machiavelli nailed this 500 years ago in the prince. If one person always plays by the rules, they will lose to the group who ignore the rules,
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 6mo ago
  Ecuador has Rights of Nature articles incorporated into their 2008 Constitution [1] effecting national decision making in investment and development. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_nature_in_Ecuador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_nature_in_Ecuador
  - rob74 6mo ago
    Yes - the current conservative president organized a referendum which would have allowed him to change it, but it got rejected: https://constitutionnet.org/news/voices/peoples-verdict-why-did-ecuadors-constitutional-referendum-fail https://constitutionnet.org/news/voices/peoples-verdict-why-... > in the months leading up to the referendum, the government and several pro-government public figures and political commentators openly criticized the 2008 Constitution, particularly its recognition of Nature as a subject of rights, emphasizing that no other constitution in the world contains such a provision.
SamHenryCliff 6mo ago
Case in point: Marc Andreeson denigrating introspection not only in his own life, but extrapolating that to the population at large. As Dr, Jung noted, healing happens in solitude. That’s one of the reasons that Alcoholics Anonymous really didn’t help me much. Sitting around broken people isn’t going to magically cause a “spiritual awakening” but in a few, nearly statistically negligible instances. Turning off Social Media from 10pm to 8am local time would be a great start toward the recovery of human interaction sabotaged by COVID. To put it another way, Grocery Stores which supply life sustaining nutrition are not typically open 24 hours. Comparatively speaking they are more “Good” than social media. As such, rein in the latter rather than expand the former (Wal-Mart finding open 24 hours isn’t worth it is an economic proof of concept here) and we can improve our collective ability to make progress.
- dang 6mo ago
  Where did Jung say that healing happens in solitude? Do you happen to remember where you heard/read this?
  - philipkglass 6mo ago
    This was interesting enough to prompt an investigation. It looks like the idea comes from this letter that he wrote late in life: https://philosophics.blog/2021/08/01/the-futility-of-words/ https://philosophics.blog/2021/08/01/the-futility-of-words/ I don't know German so I can't search for the original with any facility.
ofrzeta 6mo ago
You are not alone.
oblio 6mo ago
Nice philosophising, but it's vehicles. Primarily cars, but not only. By far the most common and the loudest source of noise, especially in cities, are vehicles, again, primarily cars. During the pandemic it became painfully obvious how loud cars are. Every time a city closes down streets, the same thing can be noticed. It can be shocking to some, but even the most crowded places on the planet are quite silent when vehicles aren't around. There are some minor exceptions like concerts (duh!) or other huge public gatherings where the noise is the point. It's going to take a really long time to heal this wound.
- Tade0 6mo ago
  > By far the most common and the loudest source of noise, especially in cities, are vehicles, again, primarily cars. Hugely depends on the city. Where I live it's the cargo trains and airliners. Congestion is too severe for anyone to make significant noise, unless they have modified/dysfunctional exhausts or particularly large engines.
  - oblio 6mo ago
    True, but the radius affected by airliners is generally much smaller. Once they're higher than a few thousand meters, you can't really hear them any more. Cargo trains, I imagine it's similar. > Congestion is too severe for anyone to make significant noise, unless they have modified/dysfunctional exhausts or particularly large engines. Large numbers of cars idling make enough noise to basically rival human conversations at regular speech levels. Anything above that (usually anything higher than 30kmph) makes it even worse. I'm not sure it's exponential, but I think it increases supra-linearly afterwards.
- dec0dedab0de 6mo ago
  Nice philosophising, but it's vehicles. Primarily cars, but not only. Around here cars are more common, but quiet enough that I rarely notice. Trucks, motorcycles, quads, trains, and boats are all significantly noisier.
- duskdozer 6mo ago
  Even quite a distance away I hear constant noise from a highway. It's a bit surprising too just how loud and for how long you can hear the cars and motorcycles they mod to be even louder, even through walls and windows.
Tade0 6mo ago
You would absolutely love Switzerland. Many things surprised me there, but it's the relative quiteness that did it the most. Trains arriving like massive ghosts, cars obeying the speed limit and not a single soul gunning it from the intersection. Meanwhile back home every night I can hear all kinds of "motoring enthusiasts" abusing their machines so that they won't hear their intrusive thoughts or something. It feels like a zoo in comparison.
- sentrysapper 6mo ago
  I experienced this in Japan and Korea as well. There are of course, neighborhoods where noise is tolerated but while I was there I noticed most commuters whisper conversations on their phone. The thought of blasting a call or music on speakerphone is unconscionable.

BLKNSLVR 6mo ago

I'd like to say that there may be some human cultures that are / were generally respectful to their environment and the animals therein, but it's hard to say how much that was an 'enforced' position based on their level of technological evolution. I think it's a fundamental rule that the 'rape and pillage' types will always overrun the non-'rape and pillage' types. Much in the same way the sociopaths are able to climb the corporate ladder with relative ease. The nature of nature, seemingly.

andai 6mo ago
As a kid I remember wondering why all the countries that exist seem to be jerks. Why aren't there any nice countries? Then I thought about it for another 5 seconds and it made a lot more sense.
- Pay08 6mo ago
  I'd very much hesitate characterising countries as a whole.
  - andai 6mo ago
    No I mean if you set up a simulation where there's a bunch of entities who are chill and a bunch of entities who are not chill, and then you run the simulation... Wait a minute, that rings a bell! https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/
    - Pay08 6mo ago
      By that logic, every single human should be a psychopath by now.
      - BLKNSLVR 6mo ago
        I think that's far from true, going by the simulation game thingy.
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
    - BLKNSLVR 6mo ago
      That game / simulation is fantastic. Thanks for sharing, I'm gonna pass it on at work. More than fantastic, it's beautiful.
    - BobaFloutist 6mo ago
      Cooperation usually beats out competition though. Which is why for all that things look bad right now, alliances of at least modestly liberal countries have handily dominated and out-competed most autocracies. And the autocracies that have thrived have mostly done so by liberalizing, at least a little.
maccard 6mo ago
Machiavelli nailed this 500 years ago in the prince. If one person always plays by the rules, they will lose to the group who ignore the rules,
6LLvveMx2koXfwn 6mo ago
Ecuador has Rights of Nature articles incorporated into their 2008 Constitution [1] effecting national decision making in investment and development. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_nature_in_Ecuador https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_of_nature_in_Ecuador
- rob74 6mo ago
  Yes - the current conservative president organized a referendum which would have allowed him to change it, but it got rejected: https://constitutionnet.org/news/voices/peoples-verdict-why-did-ecuadors-constitutional-referendum-fail https://constitutionnet.org/news/voices/peoples-verdict-why-... > in the months leading up to the referendum, the government and several pro-government public figures and political commentators openly criticized the 2008 Constitution, particularly its recognition of Nature as a subject of rights, emphasizing that no other constitution in the world contains such a provision.

SamHenryCliff 6mo ago

Case in point: Marc Andreeson denigrating introspection not only in his own life, but extrapolating that to the population at large. As Dr, Jung noted, healing happens in solitude. That’s one of the reasons that Alcoholics Anonymous really didn’t help me much. Sitting around broken people isn’t going to magically cause a “spiritual awakening” but in a few, nearly statistically negligible instances. Turning off Social Media from 10pm to 8am local time would be a great start toward the recovery of human interaction sabotaged by COVID. To put it another way, Grocery Stores which supply life sustaining nutrition are not typically open 24 hours. Comparatively speaking they are more “Good” than social media. As such, rein in the latter rather than expand the former (Wal-Mart finding open 24 hours isn’t worth it is an economic proof of concept here) and we can improve our collective ability to make progress.

dang 6mo ago
Where did Jung say that healing happens in solitude? Do you happen to remember where you heard/read this?
- philipkglass 6mo ago
  This was interesting enough to prompt an investigation. It looks like the idea comes from this letter that he wrote late in life: https://philosophics.blog/2021/08/01/the-futility-of-words/ https://philosophics.blog/2021/08/01/the-futility-of-words/ I don't know German so I can't search for the original with any facility.

ofrzeta 6mo ago

You are not alone.

oblio 6mo ago

Nice philosophising, but it's vehicles. Primarily cars, but not only. By far the most common and the loudest source of noise, especially in cities, are vehicles, again, primarily cars. During the pandemic it became painfully obvious how loud cars are. Every time a city closes down streets, the same thing can be noticed. It can be shocking to some, but even the most crowded places on the planet are quite silent when vehicles aren't around. There are some minor exceptions like concerts (duh!) or other huge public gatherings where the noise is the point. It's going to take a really long time to heal this wound.

Tade0 6mo ago
> By far the most common and the loudest source of noise, especially in cities, are vehicles, again, primarily cars. Hugely depends on the city. Where I live it's the cargo trains and airliners. Congestion is too severe for anyone to make significant noise, unless they have modified/dysfunctional exhausts or particularly large engines.
- oblio 6mo ago
  True, but the radius affected by airliners is generally much smaller. Once they're higher than a few thousand meters, you can't really hear them any more. Cargo trains, I imagine it's similar. > Congestion is too severe for anyone to make significant noise, unless they have modified/dysfunctional exhausts or particularly large engines. Large numbers of cars idling make enough noise to basically rival human conversations at regular speech levels. Anything above that (usually anything higher than 30kmph) makes it even worse. I'm not sure it's exponential, but I think it increases supra-linearly afterwards.
dec0dedab0de 6mo ago
Nice philosophising, but it's vehicles. Primarily cars, but not only. Around here cars are more common, but quiet enough that I rarely notice. Trucks, motorcycles, quads, trains, and boats are all significantly noisier.
duskdozer 6mo ago
Even quite a distance away I hear constant noise from a highway. It's a bit surprising too just how loud and for how long you can hear the cars and motorcycles they mod to be even louder, even through walls and windows.

Tade0 6mo ago

You would absolutely love Switzerland. Many things surprised me there, but it's the relative quiteness that did it the most. Trains arriving like massive ghosts, cars obeying the speed limit and not a single soul gunning it from the intersection. Meanwhile back home every night I can hear all kinds of "motoring enthusiasts" abusing their machines so that they won't hear their intrusive thoughts or something. It feels like a zoo in comparison.

sentrysapper 6mo ago
I experienced this in Japan and Korea as well. There are of course, neighborhoods where noise is tolerated but while I was there I noticed most commuters whisper conversations on their phone. The thought of blasting a call or music on speakerphone is unconscionable.