6 ms·

this won't actually change anything right? > the operators of the site remain unidentified. The judgment [...] orders Anna’s Archive to file a compliance repor

by bstsb 6mo ago

this won't actually change anything right? > the operators of the site remain unidentified. The judgment [...] orders Anna’s Archive to file a compliance report within ten business days, under penalty of perjury, that includes valid contact information for the site and its managing agents

LarsKrimi 6mo ago
That's the funny thing of course. I don't understand who this show really is for
- Zealotux 6mo ago
  Probably the people involved getting paid hefty fees for the whole thing.
- RobotToaster 6mo ago
  I imagine the record companies and shareholders. It would look bad if they did nothing, so a few 100k on legal theatre is worth it for them. Now they can say it's the US courts that are powerless.
pjc50 6mo ago
Aren't they widely believed to be Russian? They've been running for long enough that they're almost certainly in a non-extradition jurisdiction and know to stay there.
- KingOfCoders 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - throwawaysleep 6mo ago
    And we would be stupid to give them as access to cheese afterward. They had that chance and blew it. There is unlikely to be any thaw within our lifetimes.
    - bulbar 6mo ago
      That's not how politics necessarily works. Russia oil and already existing infrastructure into Europe means that Europe has huge incentives to continue trading eventually. That's also better than Russia focusing delivering their resources to China for good.
    - pjc50 6mo ago
      There's unlikely to be any thaw within Putin's lifetime. Putin is 73. What happens after that? Opportunity to be a clean slate. Before the war, upper-class Russians had it good. Freedom of movement to the West. Russian money was popular in Europe, now it's got a Chernobyl toxic glow to it. It wouldn't be so bad to go back to 2010 Russia before Putin threw all of that away on territorial expansion and irridentism.
  - NoahZuniga 6mo ago
    > Russia after Putins fall will do everything to please other countries, to get back to good terms This is pretty obviously not true? Russia's not going to try to please the us or most European countries, and many fugitives in Russia only angered those countries.
  - nannal 6mo ago
    Bold claims with no backing. Always bet on russian antagonism.
    - actionfromafar 6mo ago
      Or apathy. The combo is extremely spicy.
      - nannal 6mo ago
        I'm sure this time it won't turn into a imperialistic dictatorship.
  - ben_w 6mo ago
    Many of them. Way things are going, I suspect that many of people who are wanted by the American government will find friendly arms in China and Europe. (Perhaps even there I'm optimistic about Russia wanting to normalise relations? Or existing?)
    - KingOfCoders 6mo ago
      I don't think with the EU, the EU bases its identity on rules for the better or worse.
      - ben_w 6mo ago
        Sure, but also the EU is comparably as weak over its member states as the US Federal government was over American states in the Articles of Confederation era. This is how Hungary was able to paralyse the collective response against Russia.
        soco 6mo ago
        Nevertheless, extraditions based on international mandates are usually respected (terms and conditions may apply, see Greece or Italy). Wanted people often go to Serbia nowadays, to give a successful example.
        ben_w 6mo ago
        Indeed. But I did write "will find friendly arms in China and Europe", and Greece, Italy, and indeed Serbia, are in Europe. The whole continent != nation thing is clearer with the EU != Europe (due to the EU not even being a nation yet) than with the American nation != The Americas. Even then, don't underestimate rules-lawyering of laws: I wish to suggest that the USA is going down the path of "rogue state", and that extradition treaties may have clauses (either explicitly in treaty text* or implicitly via the European Convention on Human Rights) protecting individuals from the risk of a death penalty, which may end up getting invoked due to the US having the death penalty. * https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-with-the-united-states-on-extradition.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement... and https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/109th-congress/14/document-text?overview=closed https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/109th-congress/14/d... Article 13 (``Capital punishment'') provides that when an offense for which extradition is sought is punishable by death under the laws in the requesting State but not under the laws in the requested State, the requested State may grant extradition on condition that the death penalty shall not be imposed or, if for procedural reasons such condition cannot be complied with by the requesting State, on condition that if imposed the death penalty shall not be carried out. If there's a loss of trust that the US will honour its obligations, and in other cases besides extradition this has already happened, what then?
  - tovlier 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - NVHacker 6mo ago
    Assuming "Russia" cares to and can find out who is running Anna.
  - kdheiwns 6mo ago
    Please which countries, though? China? The EU? The US? All of them have conflicting interests and you can't please all three.
    - dangus 6mo ago
      If you're bad at governing you can't please all three.
      - gertop 6mo ago
        Please do tell us of that mythical leader who is so good at governing that no other country has ever had a grievance with them?
        dangus 6mo ago
        Well I didn’t exactly make some kind of claim of “no grievance ever,” I’m just saying that it’s not that hard to find countries that have good relationships with the US, China, and EU all at once. Example: most member states within the RCEP trade agreement (e.g., Australia) India Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Turkey all deliberately hedge relations between blocs. Japan and South Korea are heavily economically intertwined (not conflict-free obviously) Singapore South Africa, Kenya, Nigeria, Egypt
        kdheiwns 6mo ago
        China hates India. China hates Japan even more. China sometimes hates South Korea. The US hates Mexico (and flip flops when presidents do) America imposed a dictatorship on Chile. The US has threatened Brazil recently. The US has also threatened military action against Colombia this year. Places like Singapore, Nigeria, and Kenya are just irrelevant on the global stage. Singapore is great for money laundering and nobody sees them as a threat to their own sovereignty due to being a tiny little island that's completely dependent on its neighbors for food and water. When you're a big country with a big economy, you get enemies merely by existing.
  - cumshitpiss 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - noosphr 6mo ago
    Putin is a Russian moderate. Anyone who pays attention to Russian politics prays for his good health and long life.
    - sinfulprogeny 6mo ago
      Where can I learn more?
      - konart 6mo ago
        Nothing to learn about, really. We've got army block, FSB block, technocrats, bureaucrats and oligarchs. The usual (more or less) story. The real problem is - we don't have system that scales horizontally. So when Putin goes people will have to deal with the vertical system he created for himself. The problem here is this "for himself" part. For this system to work you will have to be a new Putin (at least for some time) and for this you will have to enforce your decisions and shape your new system. Top to bottom. Best thing that can happen to Russian (realistically) is that the power will be given to technocrats. They are not neccesarily more liberal, but they have real education, they do understand a thing or to about economics, open borders, sharing of knowledge etc. They won't be able to quickly change Russia, but given some time they can reshape it step by step. Alas - we have FSB and Army blocks, high level of corruption and millions of people who see people like Putin as the best choice. They don't need progress and responsibility. They need their empire back even if they are just peasants with serfdom included.
    - pjc50 6mo ago
      Difficult to imagine a less moderate policy than starting a war which gets hundreds of thousands of Russians killed. Starting a nuclear war?
      - mothballed 6mo ago
        The nuclear war is the immoderate Russians.
      - konart 6mo ago
        Losing hundreds of thousands in war vs hundreds of thousands (or more) in labour camps. Putting a bullet in your skull for accessing a blocked internet resource vs just blocking the resource or paying a fine. Honestly I can name many things that can be different.
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    Russians will get extradited right after French citizens in France or Lebanese in Lebanon. It's honestly astonishing the US is cucked enough to betray their own citizens up for trial by foreign court. Plenty of places won't do that.
    - adrian_b 6mo ago
      Perhaps US may extradite some ordinary US citizens, but for example when some member of the US military kills in another country someone by driving drunk, USA will immediately smuggle him from that country, so that he will not stand trial in a foreign court for his crime.
marand23 6mo ago
Slightly OT: How is it possible that the operators are unidentified? Surely someone must own the domain and pay upkeep for that? Wouldn't that expose at least one of them?
- fc417fc802 6mo ago
  Yes your honor, we've identified one Big Bird of 123 Sesame St as being affiliated with the operators of the site based on the registration data. The only reason you have to tell the truth is if you want to reduce the risk of arbitrarily losing control of the domain, such as having a chance to contest any abuse reports that might be filed against you.
  - zaphirplane 6mo ago
    It’s well established if the US wants to they can find them and crypto can be traced. Same question though how are they paying for the domain, assuming this is on the plaintiff to trace
    - bulbar 6mo ago
      What does "finding them" even means in this context? There are many hacker organizations located in Russia that are much worse than Anna's Archive. From my understanding those also operate websites / platforms to offer services.
    - nothinkjustai 6mo ago
      Well clearly that’s false? Not all crypto transactions are traceable for example. And since they haven’t found them, that seems to disprove your statement doesn’t it?
      - zaphirplane 6mo ago
        Not really this is civil case not the full weight of a state behind it
    - 6mo ago
ibic 6mo ago
"the operators of the site remain unidentified." I laughed at this quite a bit.
negura 6mo ago
ultimately it will depend on their opsec. i do think it shows that opsec strategies and tech can have a use case that is not morally bad (at least not in a straightforward way). so the good research done in this field is actually justified
Aurornis 6mo ago
They already removed the files when the lawsuit was filed. Obviously, they're not paying the $322 million. The amount doesn't matter because they're not paying anything. What it does enable is seizing their domain names and any other resources that are hosted by companies in the US jurisdiction.

by bstsb 6mo ago

LarsKrimi 6mo ago

That's the funny thing of course. I don't understand who this show really is for

Zealotux 6mo ago
Probably the people involved getting paid hefty fees for the whole thing.
RobotToaster 6mo ago
I imagine the record companies and shareholders. It would look bad if they did nothing, so a few 100k on legal theatre is worth it for them. Now they can say it's the US courts that are powerless.

pjc50 6mo ago

Aren't they widely believed to be Russian? They've been running for long enough that they're almost certainly in a non-extradition jurisdiction and know to stay there.

KingOfCoders 6mo ago
[flagged]
- throwawaysleep 6mo ago
  And we would be stupid to give them as access to cheese afterward. They had that chance and blew it. There is unlikely to be any thaw within our lifetimes.
  - bulbar 6mo ago
    That's not how politics necessarily works. Russia oil and already existing infrastructure into Europe means that Europe has huge incentives to continue trading eventually. That's also better than Russia focusing delivering their resources to China for good.
  - pjc50 6mo ago
    There's unlikely to be any thaw within Putin's lifetime. Putin is 73. What happens after that? Opportunity to be a clean slate. Before the war, upper-class Russians had it good. Freedom of movement to the West. Russian money was popular in Europe, now it's got a Chernobyl toxic glow to it. It wouldn't be so bad to go back to 2010 Russia before Putin threw all of that away on territorial expansion and irridentism.
- NoahZuniga 6mo ago
  > Russia after Putins fall will do everything to please other countries, to get back to good terms This is pretty obviously not true? Russia's not going to try to please the us or most European countries, and many fugitives in Russia only angered those countries.
- nannal 6mo ago
  Bold claims with no backing. Always bet on russian antagonism.
  - actionfromafar 6mo ago
    Or apathy. The combo is extremely spicy.
    - nannal 6mo ago
      I'm sure this time it won't turn into a imperialistic dictatorship.
- ben_w 6mo ago
  Many of them. Way things are going, I suspect that many of people who are wanted by the American government will find friendly arms in China and Europe. (Perhaps even there I'm optimistic about Russia wanting to normalise relations? Or existing?)
  - KingOfCoders 6mo ago
    I don't think with the EU, the EU bases its identity on rules for the better or worse.
    - ben_w 6mo ago
      Sure, but also the EU is comparably as weak over its member states as the US Federal government was over American states in the Articles of Confederation era. This is how Hungary was able to paralyse the collective response against Russia.
      - soco 6mo ago
        Nevertheless, extraditions based on international mandates are usually respected (terms and conditions may apply, see Greece or Italy). Wanted people often go to Serbia nowadays, to give a successful example.
        ben_w 6mo ago
        Indeed. But I did write "will find friendly arms in China and Europe", and Greece, Italy, and indeed Serbia, are in Europe. The whole continent != nation thing is clearer with the EU != Europe (due to the EU not even being a nation yet) than with the American nation != The Americas. Even then, don't underestimate rules-lawyering of laws: I wish to suggest that the USA is going down the path of "rogue state", and that extradition treaties may have clauses (either explicitly in treaty text* or implicitly via the European Convention on Human Rights) protecting individuals from the risk of a death penalty, which may end up getting invoked due to the US having the death penalty. * https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement-with-the-united-states-on-extradition.html https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/agreement... and https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/109th-congress/14/document-text?overview=closed https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/109th-congress/14/d... Article 13 (``Capital punishment'') provides that when an offense for which extradition is sought is punishable by death under the laws in the requesting State but not under the laws in the requested State, the requested State may grant extradition on condition that the death penalty shall not be imposed or, if for procedural reasons such condition cannot be complied with by the requesting State, on condition that if imposed the death penalty shall not be carried out. If there's a loss of trust that the US will honour its obligations, and in other cases besides extradition this has already happened, what then?
- tovlier 6mo ago
  [dead]
- NVHacker 6mo ago
  Assuming "Russia" cares to and can find out who is running Anna.
- kdheiwns 6mo ago
  Please which countries, though? China? The EU? The US? All of them have conflicting interests and you can't please all three.
  - dangus 6mo ago
    If you're bad at governing you can't please all three.
    - gertop 6mo ago
      Please do tell us of that mythical leader who is so good at governing that no other country has ever had a grievance with them?
      - dangus 6mo ago
        Well I didn’t exactly make some kind of claim of “no grievance ever,” I’m just saying that it’s not that hard to find countries that have good relationships with the US, China, and EU all at once. Example: most member states within the RCEP trade agreement (e.g., Australia) India Mexico, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Peru. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, and Turkey all deliberately hedge relations between blocs. Japan and South Korea are heavily economically intertwined (not conflict-free obviously) Singapore South Africa, Kenya, Nigeria, Egypt
        kdheiwns 6mo ago
        China hates India. China hates Japan even more. China sometimes hates South Korea. The US hates Mexico (and flip flops when presidents do) America imposed a dictatorship on Chile. The US has threatened Brazil recently. The US has also threatened military action against Colombia this year. Places like Singapore, Nigeria, and Kenya are just irrelevant on the global stage. Singapore is great for money laundering and nobody sees them as a threat to their own sovereignty due to being a tiny little island that's completely dependent on its neighbors for food and water. When you're a big country with a big economy, you get enemies merely by existing.
- cumshitpiss 6mo ago
  [dead]
- noosphr 6mo ago
  Putin is a Russian moderate. Anyone who pays attention to Russian politics prays for his good health and long life.
  - sinfulprogeny 6mo ago
    Where can I learn more?
    - konart 6mo ago
      Nothing to learn about, really. We've got army block, FSB block, technocrats, bureaucrats and oligarchs. The usual (more or less) story. The real problem is - we don't have system that scales horizontally. So when Putin goes people will have to deal with the vertical system he created for himself. The problem here is this "for himself" part. For this system to work you will have to be a new Putin (at least for some time) and for this you will have to enforce your decisions and shape your new system. Top to bottom. Best thing that can happen to Russian (realistically) is that the power will be given to technocrats. They are not neccesarily more liberal, but they have real education, they do understand a thing or to about economics, open borders, sharing of knowledge etc. They won't be able to quickly change Russia, but given some time they can reshape it step by step. Alas - we have FSB and Army blocks, high level of corruption and millions of people who see people like Putin as the best choice. They don't need progress and responsibility. They need their empire back even if they are just peasants with serfdom included.
  - pjc50 6mo ago
    Difficult to imagine a less moderate policy than starting a war which gets hundreds of thousands of Russians killed. Starting a nuclear war?
    - mothballed 6mo ago
      The nuclear war is the immoderate Russians.
    - konart 6mo ago
      Losing hundreds of thousands in war vs hundreds of thousands (or more) in labour camps. Putting a bullet in your skull for accessing a blocked internet resource vs just blocking the resource or paying a fine. Honestly I can name many things that can be different.
- mothballed 6mo ago
  Russians will get extradited right after French citizens in France or Lebanese in Lebanon. It's honestly astonishing the US is cucked enough to betray their own citizens up for trial by foreign court. Plenty of places won't do that.
  - adrian_b 6mo ago
    Perhaps US may extradite some ordinary US citizens, but for example when some member of the US military kills in another country someone by driving drunk, USA will immediately smuggle him from that country, so that he will not stand trial in a foreign court for his crime.

marand23 6mo ago

Slightly OT: How is it possible that the operators are unidentified? Surely someone must own the domain and pay upkeep for that? Wouldn't that expose at least one of them?

fc417fc802 6mo ago
Yes your honor, we've identified one Big Bird of 123 Sesame St as being affiliated with the operators of the site based on the registration data. The only reason you have to tell the truth is if you want to reduce the risk of arbitrarily losing control of the domain, such as having a chance to contest any abuse reports that might be filed against you.
- zaphirplane 6mo ago
  It’s well established if the US wants to they can find them and crypto can be traced. Same question though how are they paying for the domain, assuming this is on the plaintiff to trace
  - bulbar 6mo ago
    What does "finding them" even means in this context? There are many hacker organizations located in Russia that are much worse than Anna's Archive. From my understanding those also operate websites / platforms to offer services.
  - nothinkjustai 6mo ago
    Well clearly that’s false? Not all crypto transactions are traceable for example. And since they haven’t found them, that seems to disprove your statement doesn’t it?
    - zaphirplane 6mo ago
      Not really this is civil case not the full weight of a state behind it
  - 6mo ago

ibic 6mo ago

"the operators of the site remain unidentified." I laughed at this quite a bit.

negura 6mo ago

ultimately it will depend on their opsec. i do think it shows that opsec strategies and tech can have a use case that is not morally bad (at least not in a straightforward way). so the good research done in this field is actually justified

Aurornis 6mo ago

They already removed the files when the lawsuit was filed. Obviously, they're not paying the $322 million. The amount doesn't matter because they're not paying anything. What it does enable is seizing their domain names and any other resources that are hosted by companies in the US jurisdiction.