3 ms·

This is the future of libraries, and it sucks. Austin's downtown Central Library is like this. It sucks. They are not places for reaching the future. Previo

by cxr 6mo ago

This is the future of libraries, and it sucks. Austin's downtown Central Library is like this. It sucks. They are not places for reaching the future. Previously: > So many environments nowadays, even the ones that are ostensibly created to fulfill this sort of thing, are just total failures at actually providing them. I'm thinking of things like public libraries. I live in Austin and have a major axe to grind about the public libraries here, which are nothing like what you'd get if you were actually interested in the pro-social goals that you'd think a public library would have in its charter. A teenager looking to escape their high-risk environment or an adult who's had their feet knocked out from beneath them basically stands no chance at getting out of their predicament if their only option were to use the public libraries here, which would unfortunately act more like a vortex to ensure they stay in the suck. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42323264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42323264> The photos and breathless wonderment showcase it all, as well as this choice line from the slide at the top of this post: "Oodi is our common living room". These are not quiet places to study or get (back) on your feet. These are non-commercial substitutes for the shopping malls of yestercentury first, egoistic art pieces and boondoggle for administrative make-work second, and well-intentioned but poorly thought out and executed public resources at a very, very, very, very, very distant third.

Sharlin 6mo ago
Happily, Helsinkians don't agree. Everyone seems to love Oodi.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- cxr 6mo ago
  It would "seem" that "everyone" loves Austin's downtown Central Library. Reality: they don't.
  - ks2048 6mo ago
    There's nothing "everyone" loves. Austin Central Library has a 4.7/5.0 on 1,464 reviews on Google Maps. Of course, this is a biased sample. But, I think it's safe to say lots of people love it.
    - cxr 6mo ago
      Move the goalposts harder, please.
      - Loudergood 6mo ago
        No.
    - wellthisisgreat 6mo ago
      To me 4.7 on Google Maps means there is some merit to the hype, the experience will be above average but potentially barely so. 4.8 is an easy pick. No idea how or if it applies to Austin library.
TFNA 6mo ago
As a Helsinki resident, I agree with much of what you say about Oodi. And in spite of the other commenter claiming "everyone" loves it, I don't nor do many of my peers of an intellectual bent, mad about books. This building only disappoints us. But here is the thing: in Finland academic libraries are open to the general public. Someone wanting to immerse themselves in actual books, or work in silence, have a wealth of options in downtown Helsinki: the University of Helsinki main library, the Finnish National Library, the Finnish Literature Society's library, the Research Institute for Languages of Finland's library, and more. So, if Oodi ended up being a plain old social third space instead of a "real library", that didn't take anything away from Helsinki residents.
- aifhyahdhd 6mo ago
  > So, if Oodi ended up being a plain old social third space instead of a "real library", that didn't take anything away from Helsinki residents. Taxes and corruption.
  - TFNA 6mo ago
    Nah, I might be a hermit and misanthrope who prefers books to people and hates crotch goblins running around, but I can still see the value for general society of a third space open to everyone, young and old. Especially when many people are hurting these days from lack of IRL contact, and the alternative would be expensive for-pay locations like coffee joints or pubs.
    - aifhyahdhd 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - TFNA 6mo ago
        Your two posts here evince a lack of understanding of Finnish culture (cultural subsidy, and the creation of state jobs for cultural workers, is not particularly controversial here) and the particular challenges that Finnish society has to deal with (yes, people could do frivolous stuff at home, but the point is to get them outside doing stuff with other people). The films I have seen screened in Oodi are often serious, edifying stuff. It is no different from the publically funded cinematheques that have existed in many European countries for long decades now. Fear of homeless people taking over the bookable facilities is completely ignorant of how they are apportioned.
fastforwardius 6mo ago
I mostly agree with you. I find Oodi (and Sello after redesign) to feel like a typical open office space (rather than mall) but definitely not like a proper library. Rikhardinkatu is what I'd expect library to be while Lippulaiva is rather nice for a library that's part of a mall.
stevekemp 6mo ago
Why would somebody wanting to escape a high-risk environment, or some knocked-over adult go to a library? It's great that libraries exist, be they in Austin, or here in Finland, but they're not where you get support when falling on hard times , or needing active support and assistance from your council/government/city/region. A library is not a walk-in rescue center, and nor should it be. Oodi is a pretty space, it has nice facilities, although a surprisingly small stock of books. That said you can order books to collect them there, and Helsinki has no shortage of "real libraries". I think Oodi as a showcase, and a random mishmash of services and facilities is pretty good though. I went almost weekly with my youngest child for a few years, and have fond memories of the people I talked to, and the soft-play area.
- cxr 6mo ago
  > Why would somebody wanting to escape a high-risk environment, or some knocked-over adult go to a library? … is this a joke? Regardless of the bizarre mental place from which only such a bizarre question can arise[1], the answer to the question can be found on the other end of the link I included—not that it should even have to be spelled out: "Researchers determined risk by asking lots of questions. For example, they asked whether the kid has basic necessities, like electricity or a quiet place to study." * * * * * > A library is not a walk-in rescue center, and nor should it be. Right. Exactly. It's a library. It should be a library—one able to provide (and that does provide) the things that you should be able to count on a library to provide—and that few other places can if that's what you need. Not a cacophonous community center concerned foremost with providing photo ops for bougie normies living in relative comfort to post on Instagram during their disruptive stroll through. That's the _entire_ basis of my position and the premise of the multiple comments I wrote about this. 1. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40136743#:~:text=I%20cannot%20rightly%20apprehend%20what%20confusion%20of%20ideas%20would%20lead%20to%20such%20a%20question https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40136743#:~:text=I%20ca...>
  - eulenteufel 6mo ago
    Ah yes, the bizarre mental place of being a european and having a social net that extends past public libraries, a strange condition indeed. Helsinki still has classic public libraries, so kids wanting to study in peace can still do that plus having the opportunity to meet people and engage in other activities that might be difficult at home, like practicing an instrument. The notion that a knocked-over person is best supported by a library sounds quite strange from my perspective. A person struggling needs first and foremost to shelter, food and access to hygiene. Libraries do not provide any of that. They do provide a quite place to think and work and access to public information with newspapers and internet access, but a good shelter and a smartphone provide this too. I think Finland (and many other countries) provide enough support to relieve Libraries of being a first address for struggling people, while still maintaining these libraries for what they are really needed. Oodi and similar projects existing does not take that away and I'm surprised you think it does.
hmahonen 6mo ago
Interesting take. I do not agree. Helsinki weather is crap. Half a year it is too windy, too wet and too cold to be outside. It rains sleet or snow very often. Oodi is a great place to do things or just to stop by. No pressure to buy anything. No ads up to your eyeballs. There are a lot of people just sitting by. Studying. Reading books. Using the provided services. Meeting up people. The layout is good, especially the second floor that containts most of the services. There are a lot of spaces where you can just _sit_ without obligations. I am sorry, but I think your ending sentence does not make any sense. (I am a Finn, I visit Oodi roughly once a week during work trip to the capital).

by cxr 6mo ago

Sharlin 6mo ago

Happily, Helsinkians don't agree. Everyone seems to love Oodi.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
cxr 6mo ago
It would "seem" that "everyone" loves Austin's downtown Central Library. Reality: they don't.
- ks2048 6mo ago
  There's nothing "everyone" loves. Austin Central Library has a 4.7/5.0 on 1,464 reviews on Google Maps. Of course, this is a biased sample. But, I think it's safe to say lots of people love it.
  - cxr 6mo ago
    Move the goalposts harder, please.
    - Loudergood 6mo ago
      No.
  - wellthisisgreat 6mo ago
    To me 4.7 on Google Maps means there is some merit to the hype, the experience will be above average but potentially barely so. 4.8 is an easy pick. No idea how or if it applies to Austin library.

TFNA 6mo ago

As a Helsinki resident, I agree with much of what you say about Oodi. And in spite of the other commenter claiming "everyone" loves it, I don't nor do many of my peers of an intellectual bent, mad about books. This building only disappoints us. But here is the thing: in Finland academic libraries are open to the general public. Someone wanting to immerse themselves in actual books, or work in silence, have a wealth of options in downtown Helsinki: the University of Helsinki main library, the Finnish National Library, the Finnish Literature Society's library, the Research Institute for Languages of Finland's library, and more. So, if Oodi ended up being a plain old social third space instead of a "real library", that didn't take anything away from Helsinki residents.

aifhyahdhd 6mo ago
> So, if Oodi ended up being a plain old social third space instead of a "real library", that didn't take anything away from Helsinki residents. Taxes and corruption.
- TFNA 6mo ago
  Nah, I might be a hermit and misanthrope who prefers books to people and hates crotch goblins running around, but I can still see the value for general society of a third space open to everyone, young and old. Especially when many people are hurting these days from lack of IRL contact, and the alternative would be expensive for-pay locations like coffee joints or pubs.
  - aifhyahdhd 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - TFNA 6mo ago
      Your two posts here evince a lack of understanding of Finnish culture (cultural subsidy, and the creation of state jobs for cultural workers, is not particularly controversial here) and the particular challenges that Finnish society has to deal with (yes, people could do frivolous stuff at home, but the point is to get them outside doing stuff with other people). The films I have seen screened in Oodi are often serious, edifying stuff. It is no different from the publically funded cinematheques that have existed in many European countries for long decades now. Fear of homeless people taking over the bookable facilities is completely ignorant of how they are apportioned.

fastforwardius 6mo ago

I mostly agree with you. I find Oodi (and Sello after redesign) to feel like a typical open office space (rather than mall) but definitely not like a proper library. Rikhardinkatu is what I'd expect library to be while Lippulaiva is rather nice for a library that's part of a mall.

stevekemp 6mo ago

Why would somebody wanting to escape a high-risk environment, or some knocked-over adult go to a library? It's great that libraries exist, be they in Austin, or here in Finland, but they're not where you get support when falling on hard times , or needing active support and assistance from your council/government/city/region. A library is not a walk-in rescue center, and nor should it be. Oodi is a pretty space, it has nice facilities, although a surprisingly small stock of books. That said you can order books to collect them there, and Helsinki has no shortage of "real libraries". I think Oodi as a showcase, and a random mishmash of services and facilities is pretty good though. I went almost weekly with my youngest child for a few years, and have fond memories of the people I talked to, and the soft-play area.

cxr 6mo ago
> Why would somebody wanting to escape a high-risk environment, or some knocked-over adult go to a library? … is this a joke? Regardless of the bizarre mental place from which only such a bizarre question can arise[1], the answer to the question can be found on the other end of the link I included—not that it should even have to be spelled out: "Researchers determined risk by asking lots of questions. For example, they asked whether the kid has basic necessities, like electricity or a quiet place to study." * * * * * > A library is not a walk-in rescue center, and nor should it be. Right. Exactly. It's a library. It should be a library—one able to provide (and that does provide) the things that you should be able to count on a library to provide—and that few other places can if that's what you need. Not a cacophonous community center concerned foremost with providing photo ops for bougie normies living in relative comfort to post on Instagram during their disruptive stroll through. That's the _entire_ basis of my position and the premise of the multiple comments I wrote about this. 1. <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40136743#:~:text=I%20cannot%20rightly%20apprehend%20what%20confusion%20of%20ideas%20would%20lead%20to%20such%20a%20question https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40136743#:~:text=I%20ca...>
- eulenteufel 6mo ago
  Ah yes, the bizarre mental place of being a european and having a social net that extends past public libraries, a strange condition indeed. Helsinki still has classic public libraries, so kids wanting to study in peace can still do that plus having the opportunity to meet people and engage in other activities that might be difficult at home, like practicing an instrument. The notion that a knocked-over person is best supported by a library sounds quite strange from my perspective. A person struggling needs first and foremost to shelter, food and access to hygiene. Libraries do not provide any of that. They do provide a quite place to think and work and access to public information with newspapers and internet access, but a good shelter and a smartphone provide this too. I think Finland (and many other countries) provide enough support to relieve Libraries of being a first address for struggling people, while still maintaining these libraries for what they are really needed. Oodi and similar projects existing does not take that away and I'm surprised you think it does.

hmahonen 6mo ago

Interesting take. I do not agree. Helsinki weather is crap. Half a year it is too windy, too wet and too cold to be outside. It rains sleet or snow very often. Oodi is a great place to do things or just to stop by. No pressure to buy anything. No ads up to your eyeballs. There are a lot of people just sitting by. Studying. Reading books. Using the provided services. Meeting up people. The layout is good, especially the second floor that containts most of the services. There are a lot of spaces where you can just _sit_ without obligations. I am sorry, but I think your ending sentence does not make any sense. (I am a Finn, I visit Oodi roughly once a week during work trip to the capital).