6 ms·

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. Howeve

by Leomuck 6mo ago

Crazy, I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. However, I would like to see the existing situation that lead to this decision. Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Was there public pressure to do this or did they just think it a good idea? My assumption so far was that there are those who use the internet, they're usually fine, and those that don't - they won't benefit much. But no idea about South Korea. Anyway, cheaper and unlimited access is always a good idea!

calvinmorrison 6mo ago
There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs. Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.
- qingcharles 6mo ago
  The federal plans still exist, and the wires are already there in most homes, so most providers offer a tiny plan to fit the subsidy.
- grahamburger 6mo ago
  I work with a US non-profit that has provided both free and very low cost Internet access over the last 4 years (fixed home wifi, no phone). We have primarily used 4G/5G, including private networks built and owned by the non-profit, public/private partnerships with cities that own a 4G network, and now primarily very low cost wifi hotspots serviced by a major carrier.
edent 6mo ago
At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)
- aitchnyu 6mo ago
  Umm, was it more than an oppportunistic attack at net neurality?
  - ratorx 6mo ago
    UK has never had net neutrality, there are many limited data phone plans that include unlimited music/video etc
    - daveoc64 6mo ago
      The UK does have net neutrality, and it's quite strictly regulated by Ofcom, which produces an annual report showing compliance and highlighting any issues it has investigated: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neutrality https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neu... Things like restrictions on tethering and using a SIM in a router are forbidden. Unlike most countries, net neutrality has never been a political football in the UK. Ofcom groups zero rating schemes into three types: Type one - government and NGO services (always allowed). Type two - where categories of service (e.g. video or music streaming apps) are zero rated, but any service fitting into the category can apply to be zero rated by the network. Type three - any other kind of zero rating. Things like the VOXI Unlimited Social Media packages fit into Type Two, so are expressly permitted. For the rest, Ofcom assessed the impact on consumers, which is generally low.
      - hamdingers 6mo ago
        This is not net neutrality, all network traffic is not treated equally. Ofcom seems to have invented their own definition of net neutrality and placed it on that website, but calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. This is tiered access.
        foldr 6mo ago
        It doesn't meet a perfect theoretical definition of net neutrality, but it's a set of defined legal limits on the extent to which providers can treat different kinds of traffic differently.
cwillu 6mo ago
Canada requires mobile service providers to have a 35$ a month data plan, and the low-income support payments will add 35$ a month to the base rate if you provide a cell phone bill.
- pyreko 6mo ago
  TIL, it's not a perfect solution but given how rough telecoms are here it's at least something I guess.
  - lyu07282 6mo ago
    Perhaps there is something more fundamentally wrong here if the government subsidizes privatized infrastructure that is making billions in profit? In the early days of private radio stations governments required all kinds of things to the public's benefit from them, the reasoning was the inherently limited medium of the airways, how quaint.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
diath 6mo ago
Maybe not general data cap exemption but for as long as I remember a lot of carriers in Europe whitelist certain apps that people think of as "essential" that work even when you've reached your data limit - such as WhatsApp and Messenger. Perhaps there are certain applications specific to South Korea that people think as essential/universal and expect them to work without a data plan (even maybe related to the digital ID thing they have there).
- anthk 6mo ago
  Here in Spain a few years ago some ISP's just put a data cap about 2.7KBPS (2-3G?) and call it a day. Enough for text sites, messages and the like. But if you were smart (mosh, NNTP)... you could connect to some public Unix servers and fire up Lynx/Links at crazy speeds under a Tmux window and be able to read sites/blog posts and the like. And with edbrowse, even comment on some simple JS sites. With some cachés set for my audio player I could even listen to some odd Avant Gardé radio streams -think Frank Zappa like- at http://dir.xiph.org http://dir.xiph.org with 16 KBPS quality in OPUS format. Not totally robotic, it sounded better than old MP3's at 32KBPS.
troupo 6mo ago
> Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Almost anythijg now requires internet access. Banking, schools, parking, transport tickets, almost any form of communication with almost any organization (besides phone, but some companies don't even have phone numbers anymore) etc.
KellyCriterion 6mo ago
But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9
- gbear605 6mo ago
  Phones can be had for a lot less than that - you can find decent enough used phones that will last a year or two for under $100, which is cheap enough that almost everyone can scrounge together the money for it.
  - oofbey 6mo ago
    I’m guessing you’ve never been poor. For people living in poverty, finding $100 for a one time purchase is extremely difficult - much more than say finding $10 per month. Finance options are notoriously predatory and expensive. Plus if it only lasts a year then the amortized cost is about the same as the hypothetical cheap service.
    - KellyCriterion 6mo ago
      Thanks! Exactly, this is what I was trying to tell: Its the barrier of accumulating the "once a time payment" in that volume, because methods for savings are not applied (for several reasons, unregular income, too low income, debt, drugs etc.)
    - gbear605 6mo ago
      By “under $100”, I meant that there are options at $20. Yes, you can get a smartphone for twenty bucks. I agree that there are some people who can’t even find $20 to get a smartphone, but they’re going to be a small minority of even the very poor.
- roughly 6mo ago
  A weird part about the modern world is that a cell phone is incredibly cheap compared to shelter, food, or just about anything else. You’d be surprised how many homeless folks have phones.
bobthepanda 6mo ago
Even in the US which is well behind SK in the digital curve, I’ve heard anecdotally that a huge problem with reintegrating some populations like the homeless, poor or elderly is that job applications are virtually all online now.
- jiggunjer 6mo ago
  This, and owning a bank account, filing taxes, paying bills are all moving to internet only. Some coffee shops in china you can't even order or pay without their app.
sugarkjube 6mo ago
> But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. Well, water is certainly more essential, yet it isn't free. Food isn't free. Shelter isn't free. Besides, the services you'd use over this free connection aren't (necessarily) free. Its not unreasonable to suspect some other agenda, like easier propaganda, subsidising of social media, ...
- mattjoyce 6mo ago
  Maybe the reduction in gov paper forms printing and processing, offset the mobile costs.
  - usr1106 6mo ago
    I often hear the argument of savings in printing and postage. Having seen all the over budget, years delayed or completely failed IT projects in the public sector, I wonder whether there are any savings at all in the end. (Perspective from a couple of EU countries at different degrees of digitalization)
- jiggunjer 6mo ago
  Actually food water and shelter are free to those who can't afford it in many developed countries.
- Leomuck 6mo ago
  Oi! Fair. I didn't want to imply that access to water, shelter and food was less important. Not at all! It's crazy that we have more than enough for everybody and still people die from hunger, thirst, conditions. I was only trying to say that any effort in the right direction is appreciated. You are correct in pointing out other motives though. That's what I asked myself as well.
sbinnee 6mo ago
Crazy even to me, a Korean. I just woke up and saw this news on HN. Over the years I watched the price of data was going down drastically in Korea. I had always complained that data in France was much cheaper like 30gb for 10 eur. Then when I came back after around the end of pandemic, the price of data in Korea was actually quite cheap. Do I know why? No idea. The article alluded fast AI adoption but even senior Korean citizens are all addicted to youtube videos. Soon they will start using AI. Young people are already heavily using AI for everything. So I don’t think it’s for AI adoption. The recent hacking incidence was a big one, true. But the price had been going down even before.
herbst 6mo ago
Switzerland is doing that quite a while now. https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/landline-subscription/basic-service-provision.html https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/landline-subscription...
rasz 6mo ago
>I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. In 2011 Poland 2600MHz LTE band was auctioned off with the condition winning bidderwould offer free 512Kbit mobile internet called 'Bezpłatny Dostęp do Internetu' aka BDI (translates free access to internet) for 3 years, amount of time it should take them to build full country coverage. ... except they failed to build the network deciding to concentrate on most profitable cities instead. National regulating body UKE (Office of Electronic Communications) didnt like that one bit and first expanded free period to 2016, and then in 2016 made extension indefinite until mandated 50% coverage is reached + 3 years. This happened in 2021 forcing them to provide it all the way to 2024. TLDR 2011-2024 free government mandated mobile 512Kbit internet. Funnily enough Aero2 - company in question decided it was a good business after all and is still offering "free unlimited" trier, in quotes because you have to renew it every 12 months paying ~$1.5 https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/ https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/

by Leomuck 6mo ago

calvinmorrison 6mo ago

There are many such schemes for low income households in the united states to subsidize internet access for students. There were some federal and other programs. Probably LTE is cheaper to deploy then actually wiring a house up anyway.

qingcharles 6mo ago
The federal plans still exist, and the wires are already there in most homes, so most providers offer a tiny plan to fit the subsidy.
grahamburger 6mo ago
I work with a US non-profit that has provided both free and very low cost Internet access over the last 4 years (fixed home wifi, no phone). We have primarily used 4G/5G, including private networks built and owned by the non-profit, public/private partnerships with cities that own a 4G network, and now primarily very low cost wifi hotspots serviced by a major carrier.

edent 6mo ago

At the height of the pandemic, the UK mandated zero-rating data for mobile connection to .gov.uk and .NHS.uk domains, along with several other charitable sites. (I was part of the team working on that proposal.)

aitchnyu 6mo ago
Umm, was it more than an oppportunistic attack at net neurality?
- ratorx 6mo ago
  UK has never had net neutrality, there are many limited data phone plans that include unlimited music/video etc
  - daveoc64 6mo ago
    The UK does have net neutrality, and it's quite strictly regulated by Ofcom, which produces an annual report showing compliance and highlighting any issues it has investigated: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neutrality https://www.ofcom.org.uk/internet-based-services/network-neu... Things like restrictions on tethering and using a SIM in a router are forbidden. Unlike most countries, net neutrality has never been a political football in the UK. Ofcom groups zero rating schemes into three types: Type one - government and NGO services (always allowed). Type two - where categories of service (e.g. video or music streaming apps) are zero rated, but any service fitting into the category can apply to be zero rated by the network. Type three - any other kind of zero rating. Things like the VOXI Unlimited Social Media packages fit into Type Two, so are expressly permitted. For the rest, Ofcom assessed the impact on consumers, which is generally low.
    - hamdingers 6mo ago
      This is not net neutrality, all network traffic is not treated equally. Ofcom seems to have invented their own definition of net neutrality and placed it on that website, but calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. This is tiered access.
      - foldr 6mo ago
        It doesn't meet a perfect theoretical definition of net neutrality, but it's a set of defined legal limits on the extent to which providers can treat different kinds of traffic differently.

cwillu 6mo ago

Canada requires mobile service providers to have a 35$ a month data plan, and the low-income support payments will add 35$ a month to the base rate if you provide a cell phone bill.

pyreko 6mo ago
TIL, it's not a perfect solution but given how rough telecoms are here it's at least something I guess.
- lyu07282 6mo ago
  Perhaps there is something more fundamentally wrong here if the government subsidizes privatized infrastructure that is making billions in profit? In the early days of private radio stations governments required all kinds of things to the public's benefit from them, the reasoning was the inherently limited medium of the airways, how quaint.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

diath 6mo ago

Maybe not general data cap exemption but for as long as I remember a lot of carriers in Europe whitelist certain apps that people think of as "essential" that work even when you've reached your data limit - such as WhatsApp and Messenger. Perhaps there are certain applications specific to South Korea that people think as essential/universal and expect them to work without a data plan (even maybe related to the digital ID thing they have there).

anthk 6mo ago
Here in Spain a few years ago some ISP's just put a data cap about 2.7KBPS (2-3G?) and call it a day. Enough for text sites, messages and the like. But if you were smart (mosh, NNTP)... you could connect to some public Unix servers and fire up Lynx/Links at crazy speeds under a Tmux window and be able to read sites/blog posts and the like. And with edbrowse, even comment on some simple JS sites. With some cachés set for my audio player I could even listen to some odd Avant Gardé radio streams -think Frank Zappa like- at http://dir.xiph.org http://dir.xiph.org with 16 KBPS quality in OPUS format. Not totally robotic, it sounded better than old MP3's at 32KBPS.

troupo 6mo ago

> Were there many people who couldn't do things anymore due to lacking internet access? Almost anythijg now requires internet access. Banking, schools, parking, transport tickets, almost any form of communication with almost any organization (besides phone, but some companies don't even have phone numbers anymore) etc.

KellyCriterion 6mo ago

But to really reach the poor people, you would also need to deploy phones, not only data/traffic/WiFi: For sure for lot of people 10-20 USD monthly bill is already too high, but buying a phone that is somehow not outdated and capable of running all the apps needed, this is a much higher barrier (of lets say 200-300 USD for a somehow solid phone that will last some time9

gbear605 6mo ago
Phones can be had for a lot less than that - you can find decent enough used phones that will last a year or two for under $100, which is cheap enough that almost everyone can scrounge together the money for it.
- oofbey 6mo ago
  I’m guessing you’ve never been poor. For people living in poverty, finding $100 for a one time purchase is extremely difficult - much more than say finding $10 per month. Finance options are notoriously predatory and expensive. Plus if it only lasts a year then the amortized cost is about the same as the hypothetical cheap service.
  - KellyCriterion 6mo ago
    Thanks! Exactly, this is what I was trying to tell: Its the barrier of accumulating the "once a time payment" in that volume, because methods for savings are not applied (for several reasons, unregular income, too low income, debt, drugs etc.)
  - gbear605 6mo ago
    By “under $100”, I meant that there are options at $20. Yes, you can get a smartphone for twenty bucks. I agree that there are some people who can’t even find $20 to get a smartphone, but they’re going to be a small minority of even the very poor.
roughly 6mo ago
A weird part about the modern world is that a cell phone is incredibly cheap compared to shelter, food, or just about anything else. You’d be surprised how many homeless folks have phones.

bobthepanda 6mo ago

Even in the US which is well behind SK in the digital curve, I’ve heard anecdotally that a huge problem with reintegrating some populations like the homeless, poor or elderly is that job applications are virtually all online now.

jiggunjer 6mo ago
This, and owning a bank account, filing taxes, paying bills are all moving to internet only. Some coffee shops in china you can't even order or pay without their app.

sugarkjube 6mo ago

> But given how essential the internet is to everything we do on a daily basis, that makes a lot of sense. Well, water is certainly more essential, yet it isn't free. Food isn't free. Shelter isn't free. Besides, the services you'd use over this free connection aren't (necessarily) free. Its not unreasonable to suspect some other agenda, like easier propaganda, subsidising of social media, ...

mattjoyce 6mo ago
Maybe the reduction in gov paper forms printing and processing, offset the mobile costs.
- usr1106 6mo ago
  I often hear the argument of savings in printing and postage. Having seen all the over budget, years delayed or completely failed IT projects in the public sector, I wonder whether there are any savings at all in the end. (Perspective from a couple of EU countries at different degrees of digitalization)
jiggunjer 6mo ago
Actually food water and shelter are free to those who can't afford it in many developed countries.
Leomuck 6mo ago
Oi! Fair. I didn't want to imply that access to water, shelter and food was less important. Not at all! It's crazy that we have more than enough for everybody and still people die from hunger, thirst, conditions. I was only trying to say that any effort in the right direction is appreciated. You are correct in pointing out other motives though. That's what I asked myself as well.

sbinnee 6mo ago

Crazy even to me, a Korean. I just woke up and saw this news on HN. Over the years I watched the price of data was going down drastically in Korea. I had always complained that data in France was much cheaper like 30gb for 10 eur. Then when I came back after around the end of pandemic, the price of data in Korea was actually quite cheap. Do I know why? No idea. The article alluded fast AI adoption but even senior Korean citizens are all addicted to youtube videos. Soon they will start using AI. Young people are already heavily using AI for everything. So I don’t think it’s for AI adoption. The recent hacking incidence was a big one, true. But the price had been going down even before.

herbst 6mo ago

Switzerland is doing that quite a while now. https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/landline-subscription/basic-service-provision.html https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/landline-subscription...

rasz 6mo ago

>I've never heard of such a plan anywhere. In 2011 Poland 2600MHz LTE band was auctioned off with the condition winning bidderwould offer free 512Kbit mobile internet called 'Bezpłatny Dostęp do Internetu' aka BDI (translates free access to internet) for 3 years, amount of time it should take them to build full country coverage. ... except they failed to build the network deciding to concentrate on most profitable cities instead. National regulating body UKE (Office of Electronic Communications) didnt like that one bit and first expanded free period to 2016, and then in 2016 made extension indefinite until mandated 50% coverage is reached + 3 years. This happened in 2021 forcing them to provide it all the way to 2024. TLDR 2011-2024 free government mandated mobile 512Kbit internet. Funnily enough Aero2 - company in question decided it was a good business after all and is still offering "free unlimited" trier, in quotes because you have to renew it every 12 months paying ~$1.5 https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/ https://aero2.pl/zasady-dzialania/