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A mild reminder that humans tend towards inflicting pain on their fellow humans when there are no consequences.

by rectang 6mo ago

tombert 6mo ago
I feel like "pain" is a strong word here. It was a book spoiler. I wasn't laughing at people being punched or hurt or anything. I acknowledge it's a dick move, but it really is just a spoiler for a book, not exactly life ruining and really shouldn't even be day-ruining. I had the book spoiled for me too and it was just something I moved on from, somehow.
- lobf 6mo ago
  Maybe you forget the absolute hysteria around these books. People were passionate about learning what happened next, and incredibly excited for the reveal to happen organically. This was done because it was the easiest way to massively distribute pain to people about a known weak spot. It was mean spirited, anti-social, and honestly indefensible. If it isn't what's the defense?
- rectang 6mo ago
  To be clear, I'm not sitting in judgment of you or any of the other spoiler trolls, not back then and certainly not now. This is an instance where the Potter-philes couldn't fight back, and to my mind that's inevitably going to bring out the worst in human nature. Elsethread, you mention that "some people really got upset.". In some sense, the more upset they get, the more successful the troll and the funnier it gets, right? At least, it feels funny to me, at the same time as it also feels bad to imagine upset kids, at the same time as feeling that upset kids learning that other humans are cruel is a necessary part of growing up.
- add-sub-mul-div 6mo ago
  You're not equipped to know what the right word is for anyone but yourself. You go through life curious about the vast diversity of mindsets rather than assuming they're homogenous.
- autoexec 6mo ago
  > not exactly life ruining and really shouldn't even be day-ruining. These were people who lined up for hours outside of a bookstore still waiting to get in after midnight. Many of those people were young and the lack of perspective and experience at young ages often results in assigning a disproportionate weight to the emotional events they experience. An event like that might not have been day-ruining for you, but I have no doubt that there were people who were genuinely hurt by it.
munk-a 6mo ago
I think it's extremely hard to argue that kids tend to be emotionally immature and especially vicious in this regard. But considering the GP has admitted that in retrospect they find this action to be a dick move I think it's important not to try and generalize immature behavior to all of humanity. The question of whether humans are more biased towards social or antisocial behavior[1] is a complex one that philosophy has struggled with for a long time without a clear consensus. 1. Often historically framed as whether humans are inherently good or evil.
- rectang 6mo ago
  There's never going to be philosophical consensus on the "good/evil/social/antisocial" debate because the human impulse to self-justify and believe that you're the "good guy" is extremely powerful. Those of us who seek to understand human nature have to proceed without consensus as a goal.
- bitwize 6mo ago
  Mao Zedong was able to convince kids and teenagers to have their parents and teachers killed during the Cultural Revolution by convincing them that it was prosocial behavior, and indeed their duty. So the question is fraught with conundrums of the form "humans tend to prosocial/antisocial according to which standard?"
autoexec 6mo ago
I'd rather remind people that only a very small number of dicks have any desire or interest in inflicting pain on their fellow humans even when there were no consequences. Assholes do exist, and you should be aware of them, but assholes are a tiny minority of the population. There are far more people who aren't assholes, and an even greater number of people who are just doing their own thing and can't be bothered to go through the effort to hurt others just for kicks.

A mild reminder that humans tend towards inflicting pain on their fellow humans when there are no consequences.

by rectang 6mo ago

A mild reminder that humans tend towards inflicting pain on their fellow humans when there are no consequences.

I feel like "pain" is a strong word here. It was a book spoiler. I wasn't laughing at people being punched or hurt or anything. I acknowledge it's a dick move, but it really is just a spoiler for a book, not exactly life ruining and really shouldn't even be day-ruining. I had the book spoiled for me too and it was just something I moved on from, somehow.

lobf 6mo ago
Maybe you forget the absolute hysteria around these books. People were passionate about learning what happened next, and incredibly excited for the reveal to happen organically. This was done because it was the easiest way to massively distribute pain to people about a known weak spot. It was mean spirited, anti-social, and honestly indefensible. If it isn't what's the defense?
rectang 6mo ago
To be clear, I'm not sitting in judgment of you or any of the other spoiler trolls, not back then and certainly not now. This is an instance where the Potter-philes couldn't fight back, and to my mind that's inevitably going to bring out the worst in human nature. Elsethread, you mention that "some people really got upset.". In some sense, the more upset they get, the more successful the troll and the funnier it gets, right? At least, it feels funny to me, at the same time as it also feels bad to imagine upset kids, at the same time as feeling that upset kids learning that other humans are cruel is a necessary part of growing up.
add-sub-mul-div 6mo ago
You're not equipped to know what the right word is for anyone but yourself. You go through life curious about the vast diversity of mindsets rather than assuming they're homogenous.
autoexec 6mo ago
> not exactly life ruining and really shouldn't even be day-ruining. These were people who lined up for hours outside of a bookstore still waiting to get in after midnight. Many of those people were young and the lack of perspective and experience at young ages often results in assigning a disproportionate weight to the emotional events they experience. An event like that might not have been day-ruining for you, but I have no doubt that there were people who were genuinely hurt by it.

munk-a 6mo ago

I think it's extremely hard to argue that kids tend to be emotionally immature and especially vicious in this regard. But considering the GP has admitted that in retrospect they find this action to be a dick move I think it's important not to try and generalize immature behavior to all of humanity. The question of whether humans are more biased towards social or antisocial behavior[1] is a complex one that philosophy has struggled with for a long time without a clear consensus. 1. Often historically framed as whether humans are inherently good or evil.

rectang 6mo ago
There's never going to be philosophical consensus on the "good/evil/social/antisocial" debate because the human impulse to self-justify and believe that you're the "good guy" is extremely powerful. Those of us who seek to understand human nature have to proceed without consensus as a goal.
bitwize 6mo ago
Mao Zedong was able to convince kids and teenagers to have their parents and teachers killed during the Cultural Revolution by convincing them that it was prosocial behavior, and indeed their duty. So the question is fraught with conundrums of the form "humans tend to prosocial/antisocial according to which standard?"

autoexec 6mo ago

I'd rather remind people that only a very small number of dicks have any desire or interest in inflicting pain on their fellow humans even when there were no consequences. Assholes do exist, and you should be aware of them, but assholes are a tiny minority of the population. There are far more people who aren't assholes, and an even greater number of people who are just doing their own thing and can't be bothered to go through the effort to hurt others just for kicks.