4 ms·

I don't really understand this architecture, but I thought Bluesky was distributed like Mastodon? How can it have an outage?

by tapoxi 6mo ago

Retr0id 6mo ago
Mastodon infra can have outages, too.
- tapoxi 6mo ago
  It's just confined to one instance if it goes down, not all of Mastodon.
pfraze 6mo ago
This writeup is useful for backend engineers: https://atproto.com/articles/atproto-for-distsys-engineers https://atproto.com/articles/atproto-for-distsys-engineers The simple answer is that atproto works like the web & search engines, where the apps aggregate from the distributed accounts. So the proper analogy here would be like yahoo going down in 1999.
- isodev 6mo ago
  Google and MSN Search were already available at this time. Also websites used to publish webrings and there was IRC and forums to ask people about things.
- tapoxi 6mo ago
  This is a fantastic write-up, thanks for sharing!
- fiatjaf 6mo ago
  Sorry, but this analogy is very misleading, no one browses websites through Google's servers. For example, right now in my URL bar I read "news.ycombinator.com", not "google.com/profile/news.ycombinator.com". If Google goes down now I can keep browsing this website and all the other websites I have in all my other tabs as if nothing had happened.
  - danabramov 6mo ago
    Does Google Reader help you make sense of it? It’s more like each app is like its own Google Reader. And indeed you were able to access the same posts via other apps at that time of outage.
  - evbogue 6mo ago
    Do you have ideas about how Bluesky could decentralize?
    - wmf 6mo ago
      Not the original poster but I do have some ideas. Official Bluesky clients could randomly/round-robin access 3-4 different appview servers run by different organizations instead of one centralized server. Likewise there could be 3-4 relays instead of one. Upgrades could roll across the servers so they don't all get hit by bugs immediately.
      - evbogue 6mo ago
        If multiple personal data servers (pdses) share the same set of posts how would we guarantee that they are tamper resistant to third parties?
        wmf 6mo ago
        PDSes should be sharded not replicated. Your posts live on your PDS which lives in one place (although it can move).
        evbogue 6mo ago
        What's stopping us from doing both?
        wmf 6mo ago
        Cost and complexity tradeoffs. IMO the relay/appview is the current bottleneck.
isodev 6mo ago
It’s more of a concept of a plan for being distributed. I even went through the trouble of hosting my own PDC and still, I was unable to use the service during the outage
LoganDark 6mo ago
A web interface and home server can have an outage. Bluesky is just a web interface and home server.
direwolf20 6mo ago
It's not really distributed. It's a centralised service that pulls some parts of 0.01% of user profiles from their own servers.
chr15m 6mo ago
"decentralized"

I don't really understand this architecture, but I thought Bluesky was distributed like Mastodon? How can it have an outage?

by tapoxi 6mo ago

I don't really understand this architecture, but I thought Bluesky was distributed like Mastodon? How can it have an outage?

Retr0id 6mo ago

Mastodon infra can have outages, too.

tapoxi 6mo ago
It's just confined to one instance if it goes down, not all of Mastodon.

pfraze 6mo ago

This writeup is useful for backend engineers: https://atproto.com/articles/atproto-for-distsys-engineers https://atproto.com/articles/atproto-for-distsys-engineers The simple answer is that atproto works like the web & search engines, where the apps aggregate from the distributed accounts. So the proper analogy here would be like yahoo going down in 1999.

isodev 6mo ago
Google and MSN Search were already available at this time. Also websites used to publish webrings and there was IRC and forums to ask people about things.
tapoxi 6mo ago
This is a fantastic write-up, thanks for sharing!
fiatjaf 6mo ago
Sorry, but this analogy is very misleading, no one browses websites through Google's servers. For example, right now in my URL bar I read "news.ycombinator.com", not "google.com/profile/news.ycombinator.com". If Google goes down now I can keep browsing this website and all the other websites I have in all my other tabs as if nothing had happened.
- danabramov 6mo ago
  Does Google Reader help you make sense of it? It’s more like each app is like its own Google Reader. And indeed you were able to access the same posts via other apps at that time of outage.
- evbogue 6mo ago
  Do you have ideas about how Bluesky could decentralize?
  - wmf 6mo ago
    Not the original poster but I do have some ideas. Official Bluesky clients could randomly/round-robin access 3-4 different appview servers run by different organizations instead of one centralized server. Likewise there could be 3-4 relays instead of one. Upgrades could roll across the servers so they don't all get hit by bugs immediately.
    - evbogue 6mo ago
      If multiple personal data servers (pdses) share the same set of posts how would we guarantee that they are tamper resistant to third parties?
      - wmf 6mo ago
        PDSes should be sharded not replicated. Your posts live on your PDS which lives in one place (although it can move).
        evbogue 6mo ago
        What's stopping us from doing both?
        wmf 6mo ago
        Cost and complexity tradeoffs. IMO the relay/appview is the current bottleneck.

isodev 6mo ago

It’s more of a concept of a plan for being distributed. I even went through the trouble of hosting my own PDC and still, I was unable to use the service during the outage

LoganDark 6mo ago

A web interface and home server can have an outage. Bluesky is just a web interface and home server.

direwolf20 6mo ago

It's not really distributed. It's a centralised service that pulls some parts of 0.01% of user profiles from their own servers.

chr15m 6mo ago

"decentralized"