3 ms·

As an Iowan, this reminds me a lot of the bill that's been pushed through my state's senate twice now (as recently as last year), which would prevent Iowans fro

As an Iowan, this reminds me a lot of the bill that's been pushed through my state's senate twice now (as recently as last year), which would prevent Iowans from filing lawsuits against pesticide and herbicide companies if those companies follow the EPA's labeling guidelines. The bill passed the senate both times, only stopped because the house declined to take it up. For context, Iowa has the fastest growing rate of new cancer diagnoses in the country, and the second highest overall cancer rate.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> Iowa has the fastest growing rate of new cancer diagnoses in the country, and the second highest overall cancer rate Iowa also has a lot of farmers spraying pesticides and herbicides. This feels like genuine political competition between local business interests and public health concerns.
- testing22321 7mo ago
  > This feels like genuine political competition between local business interests and public health concerns. You just described the US at large. The evidently extremely difficult decision between making money for a few, or making life better for everyone.
  - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > You just described the US at large I described any democracy in a society with private property. Even without private property, you will have issues with concentrated benefits and diffuse harms–negotiating that is part and parcel with governance. Iowa businsses petitioning their cause is one thing. OpenAI seagulling in to take a shit in Springfield strikes me as being categorically different.
    - testing22321 7mo ago
      Viewed from a country with universal healthcare , 18 month’s maternity leave ( my partner just used it ) and so much more, it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold.
      - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
        > viewed from a country with universal healthcare...it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold Do most democracies, extant or across history, have universal healthcare? You're comparing a policy to a governance structure.
        testing22321 7mo ago
        All developed ones do, yes. Except one of course.
- nozzlegear 7mo ago
  Normally I would agree with you, but the primary lobby behind both of the bills was Bayer (née Monsanto), with backing from several of Iowa's industrial farming organizations. They launched a giant ad campaign to "control weeds, not farming" alongside their bill to influence opinions. Cancer, nitrates and pesticides are at the top of everyone's mind in the state these past couple years, so having the pesticide giant try to swoop in and put a bill in place that would prevent Iowans from suing them feels like that same kind of seagulling behavior you described in another comment.
ticulatedspline 7mo ago
Honest question, isn't that like OK? Like if you have a product, and the government says the product is ok, and it's labeled per regulation and later that product turns out to be deleterious to people's health should the company be liable? Guess we should already have precedent but my google-fu is failing here. I can't seem to find the resolution of Felix-Lozano v. Nalge Nunc , Felix sued Nalgene over their use of BPA which at the time was not illegal to use in the bottles. PFAS will probably be the next battleground here. They've been used in lots of products. And have some lawsuits https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-pfas-lawsuit/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-pfas-lawsuit/ . In your opinion should every manufacturer of a product that uses PFAS be legally liable?
- nozzlegear 7mo ago
  I'm not a lawyer, nor a judge, so I can't say. All I can tell you is that it feels wrong that [Monsanto/OpenAI] can lobby a state's legislature to prevent you, the average joe and potential lucrative victim, from filing a lawsuit against them when it seems clear to any reasonable person that people are developing [cancer/mental health issues] due to the use of [pesticides/AI]. Perhaps something like anti-SLAPP rules for the ignominious corporations would be a happy middle ground? I don't know if that would "fix" anything – or if there's anything to fix – so don't take that as a super serious suggestion.
  - solenoid0937 7mo ago
    If companies can't lobby, so many "safety" regulations will pass that you will simply suffocate and kill private industry. This is why most promising drug candidates never see light of day.
    - nozzlegear 7mo ago
      I'm generally open to lobbying, but I'm not generally open to "you can never file a lawsuit against the comically evil pesticide corporation standing behind us twirling their mustaches." There needs to be a middle ground.
- 7mo ago

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

> Iowa has the fastest growing rate of new cancer diagnoses in the country, and the second highest overall cancer rate Iowa also has a lot of farmers spraying pesticides and herbicides. This feels like genuine political competition between local business interests and public health concerns.

testing22321 7mo ago
> This feels like genuine political competition between local business interests and public health concerns. You just described the US at large. The evidently extremely difficult decision between making money for a few, or making life better for everyone.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > You just described the US at large I described any democracy in a society with private property. Even without private property, you will have issues with concentrated benefits and diffuse harms–negotiating that is part and parcel with governance. Iowa businsses petitioning their cause is one thing. OpenAI seagulling in to take a shit in Springfield strikes me as being categorically different.
  - testing22321 7mo ago
    Viewed from a country with universal healthcare , 18 month’s maternity leave ( my partner just used it ) and so much more, it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold.
    - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
      > viewed from a country with universal healthcare...it feels like comparing the US to “any democracy” is like comparing rocks to gold Do most democracies, extant or across history, have universal healthcare? You're comparing a policy to a governance structure.
      - testing22321 7mo ago
        All developed ones do, yes. Except one of course.
nozzlegear 7mo ago
Normally I would agree with you, but the primary lobby behind both of the bills was Bayer (née Monsanto), with backing from several of Iowa's industrial farming organizations. They launched a giant ad campaign to "control weeds, not farming" alongside their bill to influence opinions. Cancer, nitrates and pesticides are at the top of everyone's mind in the state these past couple years, so having the pesticide giant try to swoop in and put a bill in place that would prevent Iowans from suing them feels like that same kind of seagulling behavior you described in another comment.

ticulatedspline 7mo ago

Honest question, isn't that like OK? Like if you have a product, and the government says the product is ok, and it's labeled per regulation and later that product turns out to be deleterious to people's health should the company be liable? Guess we should already have precedent but my google-fu is failing here. I can't seem to find the resolution of Felix-Lozano v. Nalge Nunc , Felix sued Nalgene over their use of BPA which at the time was not illegal to use in the bottles. PFAS will probably be the next battleground here. They've been used in lots of products. And have some lawsuits https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-pfas-lawsuit/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/firefighters-pfas-lawsuit/ . In your opinion should every manufacturer of a product that uses PFAS be legally liable?

nozzlegear 7mo ago
I'm not a lawyer, nor a judge, so I can't say. All I can tell you is that it feels wrong that [Monsanto/OpenAI] can lobby a state's legislature to prevent you, the average joe and potential lucrative victim, from filing a lawsuit against them when it seems clear to any reasonable person that people are developing [cancer/mental health issues] due to the use of [pesticides/AI]. Perhaps something like anti-SLAPP rules for the ignominious corporations would be a happy middle ground? I don't know if that would "fix" anything – or if there's anything to fix – so don't take that as a super serious suggestion.
- solenoid0937 7mo ago
  If companies can't lobby, so many "safety" regulations will pass that you will simply suffocate and kill private industry. This is why most promising drug candidates never see light of day.
  - nozzlegear 7mo ago
    I'm generally open to lobbying, but I'm not generally open to "you can never file a lawsuit against the comically evil pesticide corporation standing behind us twirling their mustaches." There needs to be a middle ground.
7mo ago