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Being dependent on US tech feels the same as when we were dependent on Russian energy: strategically unwise and avoidable. We have alternatives, they just need
by spiderfarmer 7mo ago
Being dependent on US tech feels the same as when we were dependent on Russian energy: strategically unwise and avoidable. We have alternatives, they just need work.
- Lihh27 7mo agothe license was never the real bill. the control plane was
- carlosjobim 7mo agoLike last time, I ask again: Which are the European made computers?
- cromka 7mo ago> "Like last time" I am perplexed by people who use condescending phrases like this. You think we track what you said before?
- spiderfarmer 7mo agoOr that he tracks me, which would be creepy
- sph 7mo agoNo European made computers today doesn't preclude the possibility that there will be one tomorrow. RISC-V is the way out, and there are a number of European initiatives (though nothing serious just yet, I admit) As a European dev, because I like RISC-V and because of the geopolitical situation I wouldn't bet on x86 in the long term.
- rixed 7mo agoI've been not betting on x86 in the long term since the PowerPC was announced ;)
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 7mo agoWhat are the American-made computers? The Apple macbook assembled in China with Korean displays and Taiwanese chips?
- carlosjobim 7mo agoI haven't mentioned America or any other continent. It is the Europeans who are shouting about sovereignty right now. Americans for their part would probably be very happy to use made-in-Europe software on their computers whenever applicable.
- einr 7mo agoI haven't mentioned America or any other continent. It is the Europeans who are shouting about sovereignty right now. Well, no one has mentioned computer hardware until you did. Surely you understand how "all the motherboards are made in Taiwan" is less of an immediate risk to sovereignty than "all of our business and personal data is stored on American servers and subject to US law" It would be nice if Europe could produce its own computers, but right now no one can except China, so what is your point? That limited sovereignty efforts undertaken in the realm of reality are futile and that enables you to get some cheap shots in for whatever reason?
- carlosjobim 7mo agoComputing is the software and the hardware. So you're right, I feel that it is futile. Well, you can use the old hardware which you've already got if you get cut off from foreign suppliers. But the same is true for software. It's even more true for software. If the French government and other Europeans were serious about reducing or eliminating dependency on American cloud services, they should switch to older versions of MS Office and MS Windows be done with it. No need to retrain your workers, and a realistic and speedy way to implement it.
- einr 7mo agoUnfortunately that’s an unacceptable security risk, especially for a government.
- GJim 7mo agoBeing independent of Chinese manufacturing is a tougher challenge for anybody. Though at least the Chinese are predictable, unlike dealing with the USA.
- samus 7mo agoAchieving redundancy from China is likely not possible in the near future. Meanwhile, the risk emanating from a rugpull or from deliberate sabotage by the USA is very concrete.
- edg5000 7mo agoInterestingly, there are zero non-US powerful laptops. The closest option is the Moore Threads MTT AI Book (12-core 2.65Ghz, 32GB DDR5, 1TB SSD, 14 inch). It cannot reach a modern Ryzen in performance though. It's fascinating that only the US can make good computers. I'm not from/in the US so I'm not saying that from a patriotic point of view. How hard can it be to pop a good ARM chip in a laptop and compete with HP, Apple and the likes?
- samus 7mo agoWhich powerful computers are made in the USA? Design and assembly don't count, as these are the least robust to replication attempts. Apart from that, the manufacturing is all in East Asia; Intel is the exception, not the normal!
- spiderfarmer 7mo agoAnd Intel cannot exist without foreign talent. It’s almost like globalism is not so bad as long as your companies pay their taxes.
- palata 7mo ago> It's fascinating that only the US can make good computers. Lenovo is Chinese, right? Xiaomi, Samsung... can you really not name one non-US company making computers?
- embedding-shape 7mo ago> It's fascinating that only the US can make good computers. Seemingly, the US might be able to design good computers, but it cannot make them themselves. This should make it easier for others to do the same, design the computer in country X but actually make it somewhere else, just like the US. Yet we're not seeing this at all.
- embedding-shape 7mo ago> Which are the European made computers? Recently, not so many I suppose. But many of the earliest computers were European, so surely we could get there again at one point, hardly impossible.
- croes 7mo agoGiven that most chips use photolithography machines by ASML: nearly all of them
- Snafuh 7mo agoI use an European made computer from Schenker (their XMG subbrand actually). Of course the components are not European made. But Dell's components are not US made either. I can also buy a Japanese or Korean (or Chinese) computer. There is no dependency on a single country.
- kergonath 7mo agoIt’s all about risk management. No solution is ever perfect, and that works for the US as well. Also, some partners are more reliable than others. If China becomes as volatile as the US, it would change the risk assessment and stimulate other parts of the industry.
- rvnx 7mo agoI'm more concerned about the fact that only ASML can make machines producing advanced chips (EUV). This is a way way more concerning topic. The irony is that China might be the one fixing that dependency + bring prices down. One bomb on the Netherlands and it is over for nearly all the worldwide supply-chain, 10 or 15 years of regression. Even worse, they can remotely kill the machines for political reasons.
- DrBazza 7mo agoWhich are the US made computers? Start by excluding all the ones with Korean LCD panels, and Taiwanese motherboards, and Chinese parts. If you mean assembled then there are lots of very small European companies that make custom build PCs. Economies of scale in the US, a single language, and cheap transport, mean that the US companies grow very big internally, very easily. And then go international without much effort. The same is not true in Europe, so there's not a huge Dell, HP, or IBM equivalent. In 2026, the only country on the entire planet that can likely make their own computer with 100% their parts and labour, and is actively trying, is China.
- einr 7mo agoThe same is not true in Europe, so there's not a huge Dell, HP, or IBM equivalent. In the 90s and up until the early 00s we used to have quite a few pretty serious contenders, but they are all dead now: ICL, Siemens-Nixdorf, Tulip, Bull, Olivetti, etc.
- blitzar 7mo agoThe goal isnt to become independent of China / Taiwan / the rest of Asia. The goal is to become independent of America.
- specproc 7mo agoThis is so utterly urgent. The US is an increasingly-deranged, hostile actor, which is able to cripple our tech at will. I think we've been far too complacent about the direction of travel across the Atlantic. Trump and his crew are the new normal, and the key players in Silicon Valley are on board. Any European government not currently working towards independence from US tech is being almost criminally neglectful.
- spiderfarmer 7mo agoSteps are being taken. This week two big announcements in The Netherlands as well, one for a replacement to AWS and one for taking US tech out of state secrets, which weirdly enough wasn’t already a thing.