5 ms·

This is by design; when you set up a situation where everyone is a criminal, any time you decide you want to haul someone in or stick someone in jail, you'll ha

This is by design; when you set up a situation where everyone is a criminal, any time you decide you want to haul someone in or stick someone in jail, you'll have no trouble finding something they're guilty of.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
Everyone is guilty of something is pretty much how China works, they even have contradicting laws on the book to ensure this. A related interesting effect with respect to corruption: any official is corrupt, and can be brought down at anytime because of that. Squeaky clean officials are not trusted because the "nuclear option" won't work on them, so they aren't promoted, leading to a downward spiral in quality. A reasonable fair legal system is very important, I feel like we take it for granted in the west that things could be much worse.
- nandemo 14y ago
  Here's a Brazilian comedy sketch that portrays that exact scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFd5_YtbScs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFd5_YtbScs (not-so-good English subtitles available)
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > Everyone is guilty of something is pretty much how China works, they even have contradicting laws on the book to ensure this. The US isn't too different from this, especially if you include all the contractual agreements that a typical person enters into.
  - krickle 14y ago
    I don't think the US has outright contradicting laws, but they do have enough that you are probably guilty of something, and they do have the catchall "disorderly conduct" so the police can arrest whomever they wish.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      I thought the popular charge in this regard is "resisting arrest."
      - krickle 14y ago
        See, I think they have to fabricate a charge to arrest you for before you can be resisting it. Otherwise they just add that one to the pile to encourage you to plea to lesser charges.
        seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest The courts in the United States of America regard resisting arrest as a separate charge or crime in addition to other alleged crimes committed by the arrested person. It is possible (and has happened) to be charged, tried and convicted on this charge alone.
        krickle 14y ago
        Wow that would fit right in the middle of Catch-22.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Contracts are covered under civil law, not criminal.
    - chimeracoder 14y ago
      I'm aware, but my point is that if your landlord or employer wants to make your life difficult, there's a good chance you're violating those contracts in some minor-but-enforceable way already.
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        No no no. They can put things in the contract, but just because you sign it doesn't mean the clauses are enforceable, many of them are illegal/unenforceable. If it comes to judge (which it almost never does for consumers), you have lots of rights and the judge is fair/unbiased and not in the pocket of your adversary. Disclaimer IANAL. In China, if someone wants you out of your apartment, they can have you out almost overnight. Can you imagine how stressful a midnight move is?
- Spooky23 14y ago
  From a legal framework point of view, the US is there already. It probably isn't as blatantly abused. Make no mistake, if you attract the ire of an aggressive prosecutor, you can and will be charged with some sort of serious crime. http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/... Another angle in the US is are situations where you cannot be charged with a crime, but your property can. For example, if you are travelling on an airplane with a "large" quantity of cash, the authorities can (and have) essentially "arrest" your cash via asset forfeiture. You have rights, but your property does not.
dharmach 14y ago
Traffic laws work the same way. Put such speed limit (for example) that almost all drivers are breaking the law, and then pick and choose.
stephengillie 14y ago
Likewise, when you need someone to inform or plant something, you can tell the person "We know you did X, but we'll ignore it if you do Y for us."

seanmcdirmid 14y ago

Everyone is guilty of something is pretty much how China works, they even have contradicting laws on the book to ensure this. A related interesting effect with respect to corruption: any official is corrupt, and can be brought down at anytime because of that. Squeaky clean officials are not trusted because the "nuclear option" won't work on them, so they aren't promoted, leading to a downward spiral in quality. A reasonable fair legal system is very important, I feel like we take it for granted in the west that things could be much worse.

nandemo 14y ago
Here's a Brazilian comedy sketch that portrays that exact scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFd5_YtbScs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFd5_YtbScs (not-so-good English subtitles available)
chimeracoder 14y ago
> Everyone is guilty of something is pretty much how China works, they even have contradicting laws on the book to ensure this. The US isn't too different from this, especially if you include all the contractual agreements that a typical person enters into.
- krickle 14y ago
  I don't think the US has outright contradicting laws, but they do have enough that you are probably guilty of something, and they do have the catchall "disorderly conduct" so the police can arrest whomever they wish.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    I thought the popular charge in this regard is "resisting arrest."
    - krickle 14y ago
      See, I think they have to fabricate a charge to arrest you for before you can be resisting it. Otherwise they just add that one to the pile to encourage you to plea to lesser charges.
      - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resisting_arrest The courts in the United States of America regard resisting arrest as a separate charge or crime in addition to other alleged crimes committed by the arrested person. It is possible (and has happened) to be charged, tried and convicted on this charge alone.
        krickle 14y ago
        Wow that would fit right in the middle of Catch-22.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Contracts are covered under civil law, not criminal.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    I'm aware, but my point is that if your landlord or employer wants to make your life difficult, there's a good chance you're violating those contracts in some minor-but-enforceable way already.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      No no no. They can put things in the contract, but just because you sign it doesn't mean the clauses are enforceable, many of them are illegal/unenforceable. If it comes to judge (which it almost never does for consumers), you have lots of rights and the judge is fair/unbiased and not in the pocket of your adversary. Disclaimer IANAL. In China, if someone wants you out of your apartment, they can have you out almost overnight. Can you imagine how stressful a midnight move is?
Spooky23 14y ago
From a legal framework point of view, the US is there already. It probably isn't as blatantly abused. Make no mistake, if you attract the ire of an aggressive prosecutor, you can and will be charged with some sort of serious crime. http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229 http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/... Another angle in the US is are situations where you cannot be charged with a crime, but your property can. For example, if you are travelling on an airplane with a "large" quantity of cash, the authorities can (and have) essentially "arrest" your cash via asset forfeiture. You have rights, but your property does not.

dharmach 14y ago

Traffic laws work the same way. Put such speed limit (for example) that almost all drivers are breaking the law, and then pick and choose.

stephengillie 14y ago

Likewise, when you need someone to inform or plant something, you can tell the person "We know you did X, but we'll ignore it if you do Y for us."