4 ms·

A new model comparable (ish) to the Claude/Gemini/GPT flagships is a big deal for the industry and for Meta even if it doesn't set the new frontier.

zozbot234 6mo ago
Their new Contemplating mode gives this model a Deep Research ability (akin to existing models from GPT and Gemini) that might make it quite comparable to the just-announced Mythos.
- solenoid0937 6mo ago
  Mythos is a much bigger pre train, Contemplating is not the same thing.
  - zozbot234 6mo ago
    > Mythos is a much bigger pre train Do we have data to substantiate that claim?
    - solenoid0937 6mo ago
      It's pretty common knowledge. Spud is the only other PT comparable with Mythos. Both Spud and Mythos can also scale via inference time compute. Meta simply did not have enough compute online, long enough ago, to have a similar PT.
- temp_praneshp 6mo ago
  > might make it quite comparable to the just-announced Mythos Do we have data to substantiate that claim?
gallerdude 6mo ago
I’m not sure. If it was open source, certainly. But 4th place doesn’t really matter if you have nothing different to add.
- datadrivenangel 6mo ago
  Fourth place means you're not reliant on any of the external providers for internal AI use, which is important for organizational health and negotiating with those other providers.
  - rubyn00bie 6mo ago
    I’m not sure it’s useful for negotiating, the capex to build it was surely orders of magnitude more than it would cost to just use one of the other frontier models. It’s like someone negotiating by saying, “I’ll waste even MORE money to build something worse if you don’t give me a deal.” I’m not discounting there may be other advantages to doing it. I just don’t think negotiating is one.
- lairv 6mo ago
  If the model is truly on par with Opus 4.6/Gemini 3.1/GPT 5.4 (beyond benchmarks) this still puts MSL in the frontier lab category, which is no small feat given that they pretty much rebooted last year Many labs aren't able to keep up with the frontier, xAI, Mistral
blahblaher 6mo ago
Why would you use this instead of the other more proven models? Unless it's significantly cheaper. The general population mostly wants it free, and the more professional users are willing to pay for good/better responses.
- NitpickLawyer 6mo ago
  You wouldn't use this as an API. You would "use" this inside the meta properties. Have a shop on fb marketplace? Now you have copy, images, support, chat, translations, erp, esp, fps and all the other acronyms :) and so on for your mom and pop shop @200$/mo. Probably worse than say claude/gemini but it's right there, one button away. "Click here to upgrade to AI++" or something.
  - gallerdude 6mo ago
    But rolling your own can’t be that much cheaper than buying it from a leading lab. Especially when you consider the amount of spending on datacenters.
    - hnav 6mo ago
      leading labs are going to be tightening the screws. Otherwise why not just run the entire company on a public cloud?
- gordonhart 6mo ago
  I won't use it, but I'm excited to see it for the same reason why I'm excited to see a near-frontier open-source release: more competition pushes prices down and reduces monopoly/cartel risk. I won't use Muse or Grok or GLM at this point but they're good for the ecosystem.

zozbot234 6mo ago

Their new Contemplating mode gives this model a Deep Research ability (akin to existing models from GPT and Gemini) that might make it quite comparable to the just-announced Mythos.

solenoid0937 6mo ago
Mythos is a much bigger pre train, Contemplating is not the same thing.
- zozbot234 6mo ago
  > Mythos is a much bigger pre train Do we have data to substantiate that claim?
  - solenoid0937 6mo ago
    It's pretty common knowledge. Spud is the only other PT comparable with Mythos. Both Spud and Mythos can also scale via inference time compute. Meta simply did not have enough compute online, long enough ago, to have a similar PT.
temp_praneshp 6mo ago
> might make it quite comparable to the just-announced Mythos Do we have data to substantiate that claim?

gallerdude 6mo ago

I’m not sure. If it was open source, certainly. But 4th place doesn’t really matter if you have nothing different to add.

datadrivenangel 6mo ago
Fourth place means you're not reliant on any of the external providers for internal AI use, which is important for organizational health and negotiating with those other providers.
- rubyn00bie 6mo ago
  I’m not sure it’s useful for negotiating, the capex to build it was surely orders of magnitude more than it would cost to just use one of the other frontier models. It’s like someone negotiating by saying, “I’ll waste even MORE money to build something worse if you don’t give me a deal.” I’m not discounting there may be other advantages to doing it. I just don’t think negotiating is one.
lairv 6mo ago
If the model is truly on par with Opus 4.6/Gemini 3.1/GPT 5.4 (beyond benchmarks) this still puts MSL in the frontier lab category, which is no small feat given that they pretty much rebooted last year Many labs aren't able to keep up with the frontier, xAI, Mistral

blahblaher 6mo ago

Why would you use this instead of the other more proven models? Unless it's significantly cheaper. The general population mostly wants it free, and the more professional users are willing to pay for good/better responses.

NitpickLawyer 6mo ago
You wouldn't use this as an API. You would "use" this inside the meta properties. Have a shop on fb marketplace? Now you have copy, images, support, chat, translations, erp, esp, fps and all the other acronyms :) and so on for your mom and pop shop @200$/mo. Probably worse than say claude/gemini but it's right there, one button away. "Click here to upgrade to AI++" or something.
- gallerdude 6mo ago
  But rolling your own can’t be that much cheaper than buying it from a leading lab. Especially when you consider the amount of spending on datacenters.
  - hnav 6mo ago
    leading labs are going to be tightening the screws. Otherwise why not just run the entire company on a public cloud?
gordonhart 6mo ago
I won't use it, but I'm excited to see it for the same reason why I'm excited to see a near-frontier open-source release: more competition pushes prices down and reduces monopoly/cartel risk. I won't use Muse or Grok or GLM at this point but they're good for the ecosystem.