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There were no "dark ages", that's the same common wisdom blunder like "in the middle ages everybody was dressed in drab grey clothing, ate gruel and walked thro

There were no "dark ages", that's the same common wisdom blunder like "in the middle ages everybody was dressed in drab grey clothing, ate gruel and walked through mountains of poop everywhere". It was a time of transition away from the slave powered empire to decentralized kingdoms and ultimately the Europe of today. It was by no means a time of standstill.

eru 6mo ago
As far as I can tell, the dark ages were called the dark ages because there wasn't much evidence to be found: writing was less prominent during that time. > It was a time of transition away from the slave powered empire to decentralized kingdoms and ultimately the Europe of today. You are seeing the fall of the western part of the Roman Empire a bit too rosy. Compare and contrast https://acoup.blog/2022/01/14/collections-rome-decline-and-fall-part-i-words/ https://acoup.blog/2022/01/14/collections-rome-decline-and-f...
azan_ 6mo ago
Yes, Europe did not have dark ages, it only had period of population decline, of less emissions, less building, less inventions, less records and severed trade networks.
- bitwize 6mo ago
  Population decline? Less emissions? Haven't we reached consensus that those would be welcome today? Is it time for a pro-dark-age movement?
  - djeastm 6mo ago
    The world is projected to hit population decline already sometime between 2060 and 2080, so I guess the younger ones of us will find out definitively whether it's a good or bad thing.
GeoAtreides 6mo ago
I am very sorry, but you are wrong. Between the fall of Rome (476 AD) and the Carolingian empire (~800 AD) there was a period of not only standstill, but regression, devolution and forgetfulness. Compared with what came before, it can be rightly called the dark ages.
- teleforce 6mo ago
  I am very sorry, but you are very wrong. It's dark ages in Europe but it's really golden age in Islamic Empires which far surpassed the Greek and Roman. The epitome was the Baitul Hikmah or House of Wisfom established at the time of Abassid Caliphate [1]. >Between the fall of Rome (476 AD) and the Carolingian empire (~800 AD) During this time Al-Khwarizmi was born and House of Wisdom was established. His contributions in algebra (book Al-Jabr) and many others, and the word algorithm literally originated from his name [2]. Many Greek and Indian books translated to Arabic during this myth so called dark age by the Islamic Scholars. Many many more new books were written that improved and innovated the prior knowledge. These books greatly expanding the state-of-the-art centered both in Baghdad, Iraq and Toledo, Spain. The book Almagest by Ptolemy studied by Galileo was the Arabic translation of the Ptolemy works. Of course at the time of Galileo, Islamic astronomers knowledge and contributions have already far surpassed the Greek and the Indian. The Islamic scholars not only translating (that it self is a progress) but also contributing to the body and foundations of knowledge not only in astronomy, but in many others in mathematics, sciences (physics, chemistry, biology), medicine, engineering, geography, psychology, politics, economy, architecture, etc. There are numerous other polymath scholars like Al-Khwarizmi, for examples Al-Haitham, Ibnu-Sina, Ibnu-Rusd to name just a few. But European community has been in denial for so long time and in addition unfairly supressing these Islamic scholars contributions. They even literally changed the scholars name and Latinized them with lousy names like Alhazen, Avicennia, Averroes to hide the fact that they are Islamic scholars. Imagine if now people changed name of the scholar like Newton to Nawab in the literature. Heck, even Copernicus copied diagrams from the Islamic earlier astronomers' books without proper citations, that in the modern will be plagiarism [3]. If this happen today, the university president (if plagiarised his/her book/thesis/paper) will be asked to resign. [1] House of Wisdom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom [2] Al-Khwarizmi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khwarizmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khwarizmi [3] Islamic Astronomy and Copernicus [pdf]: Islamic Astronomy and Copernicus [pdf]

eru 6mo ago

As far as I can tell, the dark ages were called the dark ages because there wasn't much evidence to be found: writing was less prominent during that time. > It was a time of transition away from the slave powered empire to decentralized kingdoms and ultimately the Europe of today. You are seeing the fall of the western part of the Roman Empire a bit too rosy. Compare and contrast https://acoup.blog/2022/01/14/collections-rome-decline-and-fall-part-i-words/ https://acoup.blog/2022/01/14/collections-rome-decline-and-f...

azan_ 6mo ago

Yes, Europe did not have dark ages, it only had period of population decline, of less emissions, less building, less inventions, less records and severed trade networks.

bitwize 6mo ago
Population decline? Less emissions? Haven't we reached consensus that those would be welcome today? Is it time for a pro-dark-age movement?
- djeastm 6mo ago
  The world is projected to hit population decline already sometime between 2060 and 2080, so I guess the younger ones of us will find out definitively whether it's a good or bad thing.

GeoAtreides 6mo ago

I am very sorry, but you are wrong. Between the fall of Rome (476 AD) and the Carolingian empire (~800 AD) there was a period of not only standstill, but regression, devolution and forgetfulness. Compared with what came before, it can be rightly called the dark ages.

teleforce 6mo ago
I am very sorry, but you are very wrong. It's dark ages in Europe but it's really golden age in Islamic Empires which far surpassed the Greek and Roman. The epitome was the Baitul Hikmah or House of Wisfom established at the time of Abassid Caliphate [1]. >Between the fall of Rome (476 AD) and the Carolingian empire (~800 AD) During this time Al-Khwarizmi was born and House of Wisdom was established. His contributions in algebra (book Al-Jabr) and many others, and the word algorithm literally originated from his name [2]. Many Greek and Indian books translated to Arabic during this myth so called dark age by the Islamic Scholars. Many many more new books were written that improved and innovated the prior knowledge. These books greatly expanding the state-of-the-art centered both in Baghdad, Iraq and Toledo, Spain. The book Almagest by Ptolemy studied by Galileo was the Arabic translation of the Ptolemy works. Of course at the time of Galileo, Islamic astronomers knowledge and contributions have already far surpassed the Greek and the Indian. The Islamic scholars not only translating (that it self is a progress) but also contributing to the body and foundations of knowledge not only in astronomy, but in many others in mathematics, sciences (physics, chemistry, biology), medicine, engineering, geography, psychology, politics, economy, architecture, etc. There are numerous other polymath scholars like Al-Khwarizmi, for examples Al-Haitham, Ibnu-Sina, Ibnu-Rusd to name just a few. But European community has been in denial for so long time and in addition unfairly supressing these Islamic scholars contributions. They even literally changed the scholars name and Latinized them with lousy names like Alhazen, Avicennia, Averroes to hide the fact that they are Islamic scholars. Imagine if now people changed name of the scholar like Newton to Nawab in the literature. Heck, even Copernicus copied diagrams from the Islamic earlier astronomers' books without proper citations, that in the modern will be plagiarism [3]. If this happen today, the university president (if plagiarised his/her book/thesis/paper) will be asked to resign. [1] House of Wisdom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom [2] Al-Khwarizmi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khwarizmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khwarizmi [3] Islamic Astronomy and Copernicus [pdf]: Islamic Astronomy and Copernicus [pdf]