4 ms·

What’s the plan for opening transit through the strait? Let Iran hold it hostage and ransom tankers through? That seems absolutely unacceptable. How about each

What’s the plan for opening transit through the strait? Let Iran hold it hostage and ransom tankers through? That seems absolutely unacceptable. How about each country sets up a blockade and demands their toll for safe passage? The only sensible strategy is to make IRGC capitulate.

ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago
How about listening to their demands? This was triggered by the US and Israel, it's on them to fix this mess.
- drivebyhooting 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Ylpertnodi 6mo ago
    Because the usa caused it.
  - defrost 6mo ago
    The US ignored all their own intelligence of decades, struck a country during negotiations, and the head of state and head of war are openly calling for war crimes while channeling all the worst aspects of former Air Force General Curtis LeMay without any of LeMay's experience.
    - drivebyhooting 6mo ago
      Yes it was a terrible decision. But now what? Do you have a suggestion for ending the conflict?
      - defrost 6mo ago
        Get an experienced Trump whisperer in to back the silly old bugger out without feeling as though he lost. It's a mental health issue, and if you can't reel him in with gilded trinkets you'll need some cooler heads to remove him from issueing executive orders and immediately pass control to congress. The time for fixing the flaws in the US system was 20+ years past .. but if you can get that effort in now, it'll be appreciated.
      - michaeljx 6mo ago
        Accept that you lost. Apologize for the mistake. Pay a few billions for repatriations, lift sanctions and open dialogue. But engaging into a multi-year trillion war is more likely, than accepting defeat upfront
  - shermozle 6mo ago
    You broke it, you bought it!
  - jjgreen 6mo ago
    Too late: https://archive.is/UpE2M https://archive.is/UpE2M
- dlubarov 6mo ago
  Extorting an international waterway is effectively just piracy (we just don't typically use the word for state actors). We could try to end this piracy through negotiations, but letting states use piracy as a bargaining chip doesn't set a good precedent.
  - anonymous_user9 6mo ago
    > letting states use piracy as a bargaining chip doesn't set a good precedent. If piracy is bad, what precedent due the US and Israel's conduct set? Instead of tolling the strait, Iran should arrest leaders of their neighboring states, and try them for their crimes under Iranian law.
    - drivebyhooting 6mo ago
      There’s no point in arguing tit for tat or who has the moral high ground. No matter what grievance one side brings up the other will have a retort.
  - adrian_b 6mo ago
    You forget that USA has instituted a blockade of Cuba in February, before attacking Iran. USA has intercepted the oil tankers headed to Cuba, causing a very serious fuel shortage there, which has created a lot of problems for the ordinary Cuban citizens. It is USA who started practicing piracy in international waters and blocking the traffic of ships belonging to others. Therefore now it is really shameless for USA to criticize Iran for doing against USA and its allies, during a war started by USA, the same thing that USA has already been doing, and unlike Iran, USA has started doing this completely unprovoked. USA has already demonstrated in numerous occasions that they believe to have the right to break any international laws and treaties whenever they please. Therefore any other country also has the same right, whenever that is done against USA or its allies.
  - scotty79 6mo ago
    US physically confirmed Iran's ownership of the strait. Now everybody should just get off their lawn. US spits on international laws and institutions so why should anybody respect them?
simonh 6mo ago
And the way to make the broader million strong Iranian military fanatical religious death cult capitulate is....
- drivebyhooting 6mo ago
  The civilian price will be terrible. But this could be one way: Destroy all power plants and desalination plants. Rations will be given out by “peace keepers” on the condition that IRGC members surrender and are taken prisoner. Missiles and drones can be exchanged for rations as well.
  - CrzyLngPwd 6mo ago
    Iran depends on desalination for around 3% of its drinking water, and has said that any such attacks on its infrastructure will see the same to any country that has support the USA/Israel military actions. USA allies in the region will be largely uninhabitable, since they depend on power and desalination for their existence. Still, maybe that is what Trump, the crazy bastard, wants.
    - simonh 6mo ago
      Yeah, the amount of magical thinking about this conflict in the USA is disturbing. Iran is dry, but it's not just desert. The military will have backup generators and priority access to any generator infrastructure or repair capability. The ones that will suffer are the civilians, and the fanatics will just see that as martyrdom. You can't defeat religious fanatics that welcome pain just by inflicting pain, especially by inflicting it mainly on other people.
      - CrzyLngPwd 6mo ago
        Martyrdom is more like they are prepared to die for the cause, as long as they are remembered for their sacrifice, which is not fundamentally differen US or the religious fanatics that are Israeli troops They don't welcome pain any more than Buddha did when he sacrificed himself so the tigress could feed and raise her cubs.
bjoli 6mo ago
Iran doesnt have the defensive capabilities needed tomproperly defend their airspace, so their plan was to make it hurt if they were attacked. The fact that the US seemed surprised they shut down the strait is such an immense intelligence failure. If anyone by this point think there will be any meaningful change in Iranian society that won't be shoved down their throats imperialist style, they shouldn't be in politics or military intelligence. They should be selling pencils from a cup. Whatever aims the US had with this illegal war, we should all admit they are a lost cause. Unless the US allows for immense civilian suffering, I think Iran will outlast any US political patience for this war
- scotty79 6mo ago
  > immense intelligence failure There's a singular failure point. Trump was properly informed and just said "nah, they are gonna collapse before they do it".
  - red-iron-pine 6mo ago
    it is almost certain that Trump never even saw the intelligence. it is also almost certain that Bannon or Stephen Miller or whoever his Trump's Russian handler -- wildly thought to be Melania until he got elected -- is also telling him what to think. given that it is reported he literally has off the record calls with Putin, it is entirely possible that his handler is literally Putin himself at this point
    - scotty79 6mo ago
      That would require presence of conspiracy (which I don't doubt) with coordination and consistency (which I totally doubt). While my explanation requires just one idiot who likes to disregard input. Which is self-evidently true.

ekjhgkejhgk 6mo ago

How about listening to their demands? This was triggered by the US and Israel, it's on them to fix this mess.

drivebyhooting 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Ylpertnodi 6mo ago
  Because the usa caused it.
- defrost 6mo ago
  The US ignored all their own intelligence of decades, struck a country during negotiations, and the head of state and head of war are openly calling for war crimes while channeling all the worst aspects of former Air Force General Curtis LeMay without any of LeMay's experience.
  - drivebyhooting 6mo ago
    Yes it was a terrible decision. But now what? Do you have a suggestion for ending the conflict?
    - defrost 6mo ago
      Get an experienced Trump whisperer in to back the silly old bugger out without feeling as though he lost. It's a mental health issue, and if you can't reel him in with gilded trinkets you'll need some cooler heads to remove him from issueing executive orders and immediately pass control to congress. The time for fixing the flaws in the US system was 20+ years past .. but if you can get that effort in now, it'll be appreciated.
    - michaeljx 6mo ago
      Accept that you lost. Apologize for the mistake. Pay a few billions for repatriations, lift sanctions and open dialogue. But engaging into a multi-year trillion war is more likely, than accepting defeat upfront
- shermozle 6mo ago
  You broke it, you bought it!
- jjgreen 6mo ago
  Too late: https://archive.is/UpE2M https://archive.is/UpE2M
dlubarov 6mo ago
Extorting an international waterway is effectively just piracy (we just don't typically use the word for state actors). We could try to end this piracy through negotiations, but letting states use piracy as a bargaining chip doesn't set a good precedent.
- anonymous_user9 6mo ago
  > letting states use piracy as a bargaining chip doesn't set a good precedent. If piracy is bad, what precedent due the US and Israel's conduct set? Instead of tolling the strait, Iran should arrest leaders of their neighboring states, and try them for their crimes under Iranian law.
  - drivebyhooting 6mo ago
    There’s no point in arguing tit for tat or who has the moral high ground. No matter what grievance one side brings up the other will have a retort.
- adrian_b 6mo ago
  You forget that USA has instituted a blockade of Cuba in February, before attacking Iran. USA has intercepted the oil tankers headed to Cuba, causing a very serious fuel shortage there, which has created a lot of problems for the ordinary Cuban citizens. It is USA who started practicing piracy in international waters and blocking the traffic of ships belonging to others. Therefore now it is really shameless for USA to criticize Iran for doing against USA and its allies, during a war started by USA, the same thing that USA has already been doing, and unlike Iran, USA has started doing this completely unprovoked. USA has already demonstrated in numerous occasions that they believe to have the right to break any international laws and treaties whenever they please. Therefore any other country also has the same right, whenever that is done against USA or its allies.
- scotty79 6mo ago
  US physically confirmed Iran's ownership of the strait. Now everybody should just get off their lawn. US spits on international laws and institutions so why should anybody respect them?

simonh 6mo ago

And the way to make the broader million strong Iranian military fanatical religious death cult capitulate is....

drivebyhooting 6mo ago
The civilian price will be terrible. But this could be one way: Destroy all power plants and desalination plants. Rations will be given out by “peace keepers” on the condition that IRGC members surrender and are taken prisoner. Missiles and drones can be exchanged for rations as well.
- CrzyLngPwd 6mo ago
  Iran depends on desalination for around 3% of its drinking water, and has said that any such attacks on its infrastructure will see the same to any country that has support the USA/Israel military actions. USA allies in the region will be largely uninhabitable, since they depend on power and desalination for their existence. Still, maybe that is what Trump, the crazy bastard, wants.
  - simonh 6mo ago
    Yeah, the amount of magical thinking about this conflict in the USA is disturbing. Iran is dry, but it's not just desert. The military will have backup generators and priority access to any generator infrastructure or repair capability. The ones that will suffer are the civilians, and the fanatics will just see that as martyrdom. You can't defeat religious fanatics that welcome pain just by inflicting pain, especially by inflicting it mainly on other people.
    - CrzyLngPwd 6mo ago
      Martyrdom is more like they are prepared to die for the cause, as long as they are remembered for their sacrifice, which is not fundamentally differen US or the religious fanatics that are Israeli troops They don't welcome pain any more than Buddha did when he sacrificed himself so the tigress could feed and raise her cubs.

bjoli 6mo ago

Iran doesnt have the defensive capabilities needed tomproperly defend their airspace, so their plan was to make it hurt if they were attacked. The fact that the US seemed surprised they shut down the strait is such an immense intelligence failure. If anyone by this point think there will be any meaningful change in Iranian society that won't be shoved down their throats imperialist style, they shouldn't be in politics or military intelligence. They should be selling pencils from a cup. Whatever aims the US had with this illegal war, we should all admit they are a lost cause. Unless the US allows for immense civilian suffering, I think Iran will outlast any US political patience for this war

scotty79 6mo ago
> immense intelligence failure There's a singular failure point. Trump was properly informed and just said "nah, they are gonna collapse before they do it".
- red-iron-pine 6mo ago
  it is almost certain that Trump never even saw the intelligence. it is also almost certain that Bannon or Stephen Miller or whoever his Trump's Russian handler -- wildly thought to be Melania until he got elected -- is also telling him what to think. given that it is reported he literally has off the record calls with Putin, it is entirely possible that his handler is literally Putin himself at this point
  - scotty79 6mo ago
    That would require presence of conspiracy (which I don't doubt) with coordination and consistency (which I totally doubt). While my explanation requires just one idiot who likes to disregard input. Which is self-evidently true.