4 ms·

It's really interesting reading about how these folks view LLMs. Yeah, they're transformative, but I don't know that we're going to be eating ramen in a Neo-Tok

It's really interesting reading about how these folks view LLMs. Yeah, they're transformative, but I don't know that we're going to be eating ramen in a Neo-Tokyo street bar anytime soon. So much "A.G.I" mentioned in the article.

0x3f 6mo ago
It's because they're really good at the kind of busywork the average white collar job requires. Most people are out there writing documents and making presentations. Only when you use them for actual complexity does the shortfall become clear.
red369 6mo ago
I'm going to write a silly comment here: For a moment I thought you wrote "... LLMs. Yeah, they're transformative, but I don't know that they're going to be eating ramen in a Neo-Tokyo street bar anytime soon." I liked that mental image a lot! (I try to maintain being uncertain whether Deckard was a replicant)
m4rtink 6mo ago
I find it interesting how a lot of cyberpunk does not really include AI or does not present it in transformative way. There is a lot of mind uploading, implants, corpo fun and overall technology permeating all aspects of life, but often AI itself does not actually play a big role.
- rwmj 6mo ago
  Hyperion has a pretty well-developed view of AGI.
- Trasmatta 6mo ago
  Deus Ex is an outlier, AI is a core part of that plot
  - staticman2 6mo ago
    The first Cyberpunk book, Neuromancer, has a plot which revolves around A.I recruiting human agents to forward its plans...
- gilgoomesh 6mo ago
  I think you can look at Star Trek as a fairly grounded example of where current LLMs could go: the ship's computer is not autonomous in any way but it does accept fairly vague instructions and you can apparently vibe-code the holodeck.
  - fiftyacorn 6mo ago
    Im hoping more for red dwarf
- satvikpendem 6mo ago
  I find that more realistic then, because it appears that's the trajectory we are going on with regards to AI, as a tool not a panacea.
- Terr_ 6mo ago
  Counterexamples that come to mind are Neuromancer (AI driving the plot) and Blade Runner (AI antagonists.) A compromise thesis might be that in cyberpunk media, AI is at never powerful or motivated to fundamentally reform the worldwide crapsack economic system. They don't abolish corporations, although they might take them over. Of course, if there was a story about an AI taking over the world into a post-scarcity society, it probably wouldn't be filed under "cyberpunk" either...
  - hnbad 6mo ago
    Rampant capitalism is kinda genre-defining for Cyberpunk so Cyberpunk without corporations wouldn't really be Cyberpunk. _The Matrix_ only qualifies as Cyberpunk because within the matrix the machines effectively control the capitalist power structures to exert their influence. Abundance/scarcity isn't really about availability, it's more about access. You can have a cyberpunk story in a "post-scarcity" setting in the sense of availability (due to sci-fi tech) but you can't have it without unequal access to those resources.
    - noir_lord 6mo ago
      Agreed, which is why The Culture (series) isn't cyberpunk but The Polity (by Neal Asher) kinda skirts the line, in many ways they are similar except resource inequality still exists on a wide/policy scale in the latter.
    - Terr_ 6mo ago
      Right: I'm implying that the genre definition itself places an upper-bound on how impactful AI is "allowed" to be, which creates a kind of (heh) no-so-anthropic principle, ex: A: "Why isn't there more AI in cyberpunk media?" B: "There's a decent amount already, as characters or tools." A: "But why didn't those authors address its potential to be even bigger?" B: "Some did, but that makes stories we don't categorize as cyberpunk."
  - citruscomputing 6mo ago
    Well yeah, that's what "alignment" means...
- ehnto 6mo ago
  It is a pretty core part of Cyberpunk the "franchise" though, both tabletop and more recent video game. I think as well if you look closer, many cyberpunk worlds imply AI through robots, computers with personality etc.
- helloplanets 6mo ago
  AI is one of the core parts of cyberpunk, through androids / humanoid robots. Blade Runner is completely built on the protagonist having to interact with rogue artificial intelligence.
- mcat_god 6mo ago
  I assume it just becomes one of those things as ubiquitous as Wi-Fi
- keiferski 6mo ago
  AIs are in plenty of cyberpunk stories, but your comment did make me think that they are often rather stereotypically “alien entity characters” and not a kind of corporate technology / weapon that is controlled by a specific organization. Which is a shame, as it seems to me that the overwhelming risk of AI is from the latter scenario, and not as a rogue individual entity.
satvikpendem 6mo ago
Well I'd hope they're transformative, they're using transformers after all. We just need to pay attention to them, that's all they need.
- kfarr 6mo ago
  Do they need all our attention?

0x3f 6mo ago

It's because they're really good at the kind of busywork the average white collar job requires. Most people are out there writing documents and making presentations. Only when you use them for actual complexity does the shortfall become clear.

red369 6mo ago

I'm going to write a silly comment here: For a moment I thought you wrote "... LLMs. Yeah, they're transformative, but I don't know that they're going to be eating ramen in a Neo-Tokyo street bar anytime soon." I liked that mental image a lot! (I try to maintain being uncertain whether Deckard was a replicant)

m4rtink 6mo ago

I find it interesting how a lot of cyberpunk does not really include AI or does not present it in transformative way. There is a lot of mind uploading, implants, corpo fun and overall technology permeating all aspects of life, but often AI itself does not actually play a big role.

rwmj 6mo ago
Hyperion has a pretty well-developed view of AGI.
Trasmatta 6mo ago
Deus Ex is an outlier, AI is a core part of that plot
- staticman2 6mo ago
  The first Cyberpunk book, Neuromancer, has a plot which revolves around A.I recruiting human agents to forward its plans...
gilgoomesh 6mo ago
I think you can look at Star Trek as a fairly grounded example of where current LLMs could go: the ship's computer is not autonomous in any way but it does accept fairly vague instructions and you can apparently vibe-code the holodeck.
- fiftyacorn 6mo ago
  Im hoping more for red dwarf
satvikpendem 6mo ago
I find that more realistic then, because it appears that's the trajectory we are going on with regards to AI, as a tool not a panacea.
Terr_ 6mo ago
Counterexamples that come to mind are Neuromancer (AI driving the plot) and Blade Runner (AI antagonists.) A compromise thesis might be that in cyberpunk media, AI is at never powerful or motivated to fundamentally reform the worldwide crapsack economic system. They don't abolish corporations, although they might take them over. Of course, if there was a story about an AI taking over the world into a post-scarcity society, it probably wouldn't be filed under "cyberpunk" either...
- hnbad 6mo ago
  Rampant capitalism is kinda genre-defining for Cyberpunk so Cyberpunk without corporations wouldn't really be Cyberpunk. _The Matrix_ only qualifies as Cyberpunk because within the matrix the machines effectively control the capitalist power structures to exert their influence. Abundance/scarcity isn't really about availability, it's more about access. You can have a cyberpunk story in a "post-scarcity" setting in the sense of availability (due to sci-fi tech) but you can't have it without unequal access to those resources.
  - noir_lord 6mo ago
    Agreed, which is why The Culture (series) isn't cyberpunk but The Polity (by Neal Asher) kinda skirts the line, in many ways they are similar except resource inequality still exists on a wide/policy scale in the latter.
  - Terr_ 6mo ago
    Right: I'm implying that the genre definition itself places an upper-bound on how impactful AI is "allowed" to be, which creates a kind of (heh) no-so-anthropic principle, ex: A: "Why isn't there more AI in cyberpunk media?" B: "There's a decent amount already, as characters or tools." A: "But why didn't those authors address its potential to be even bigger?" B: "Some did, but that makes stories we don't categorize as cyberpunk."
- citruscomputing 6mo ago
  Well yeah, that's what "alignment" means...
ehnto 6mo ago
It is a pretty core part of Cyberpunk the "franchise" though, both tabletop and more recent video game. I think as well if you look closer, many cyberpunk worlds imply AI through robots, computers with personality etc.
helloplanets 6mo ago
AI is one of the core parts of cyberpunk, through androids / humanoid robots. Blade Runner is completely built on the protagonist having to interact with rogue artificial intelligence.
mcat_god 6mo ago
I assume it just becomes one of those things as ubiquitous as Wi-Fi
keiferski 6mo ago
AIs are in plenty of cyberpunk stories, but your comment did make me think that they are often rather stereotypically “alien entity characters” and not a kind of corporate technology / weapon that is controlled by a specific organization. Which is a shame, as it seems to me that the overwhelming risk of AI is from the latter scenario, and not as a rogue individual entity.

satvikpendem 6mo ago

Well I'd hope they're transformative, they're using transformers after all. We just need to pay attention to them, that's all they need.

kfarr 6mo ago
Do they need all our attention?