4 ms·

And force them into the Google surveillance, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261

charcircuit 7mo ago
[flagged]
- fsflover 7mo ago
  So please tell us what the difference is.
  - charcircuit 7mo ago
    With surveillance a person gets surveilled with telemetry a person doesn't. Telemetry is collecting information about the operation of the device. The goal of telemetry is to understand how the device is operating where with surveillance it is about seeing what a person is doing.
    - tavavex 7mo ago
      The types of data that's collected for these two purposes have a significant overlap. Sufficiently detailed telemetry is indistinguishable from surveillance because even if the goal isn't to target you right now, they will still have the secondary option of going back and inspecting all that data you sent them if they ever are interested in you. Another secondary use of telemetry is selling it to someone else to squeeze out a bit more money. There's no downside to doing this, so any business that collects a lot of varied telemetry and likes making money might as well do it. And once the data is in the hands of adtech businesses, it becomes a whole lot more like tracking you personally than just collecting some data for development. In Google's case, you don't even need to hand it over to anyone else, everything stays in-house.
    - preisschild 7mo ago
      What does it matter in practice? Do you seriously think Google, the targeted advertisement company, does not use that Telemetry for targeted advertisements?
      - charcircuit 7mo ago
        Yes, I do seriously think that Google does not use anonymous telemetry for ad targeting.
        fsflover 7mo ago
        Do you have any reason to think this? Why would Google refuse to earn more money?
    - dmantis 7mo ago
      Do you imply that it's not possible for the US intelligence agencies to request this data from google per person of interest and deliver some information from the metadata? I heavily doubt that.
- AJ007 7mo ago
  Are you a lobbyist for Google, Apple, Meta, or the adtech industry? Because if you aren't, you are parroting their bullshit.
  - dns_snek 7mo ago
    Save your keystrokes. I think I've seen that nickname express anti-consumer, pro-corporate, freedom-violating viewpoints in dozens of different threads on a pretty wide variety of topics at this point. Not once have I seen them take the pro-consumer stance.
    - charcircuit 7mo ago
      The pro consumer standpoint is overly represented on this platform so often I can simply upvote points I agree with.
  - charcircuit 7mo ago
    I am not a lobbyist, but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society and I am familiar with the common arguments and strategies people try and use to undermine it and sow distrust.
    - allarm 7mo ago
      > I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society good one, very funny.
    - fsflover 7mo ago
      Any articles highlighting the great value?
    - newdee 7mo ago
      Genuinely curious to hear what great value you think is being delivered to society by adtech.
    - jamesnorden 7mo ago
      >but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society Ok, so you're trolling then.
- haagch 7mo ago
  It really doesn't matter. When you power on an android smartphone with google play installed for the first time you are presented with a gate screen that asks you to consent to google's privacy policy. You can't use the phone without accepting. (for example https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-without-consenting-to-googles-tos/81716 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-wi...) Using smartphones with such a setup should not become required by a European government on a fundamental level.
  - illiac786 7mo ago
    It really does. Just calling everything racism makes racism acceptable to a lot of people. Telemetry/tracking feels a more appropriate wording than “surveillance”. Exaggeration (in case it was one, not sure) also does not make an argument more compelling – quite the apposite with me at least. And I use AdGuardHome, uBlock, VPNs, etc. I HATE tracking. But it’s not what the Chinese government does to their citizens for example, it’s not comparable.

charcircuit 7mo ago

[flagged]

fsflover 7mo ago
So please tell us what the difference is.
- charcircuit 7mo ago
  With surveillance a person gets surveilled with telemetry a person doesn't. Telemetry is collecting information about the operation of the device. The goal of telemetry is to understand how the device is operating where with surveillance it is about seeing what a person is doing.
  - tavavex 7mo ago
    The types of data that's collected for these two purposes have a significant overlap. Sufficiently detailed telemetry is indistinguishable from surveillance because even if the goal isn't to target you right now, they will still have the secondary option of going back and inspecting all that data you sent them if they ever are interested in you. Another secondary use of telemetry is selling it to someone else to squeeze out a bit more money. There's no downside to doing this, so any business that collects a lot of varied telemetry and likes making money might as well do it. And once the data is in the hands of adtech businesses, it becomes a whole lot more like tracking you personally than just collecting some data for development. In Google's case, you don't even need to hand it over to anyone else, everything stays in-house.
  - preisschild 7mo ago
    What does it matter in practice? Do you seriously think Google, the targeted advertisement company, does not use that Telemetry for targeted advertisements?
    - charcircuit 7mo ago
      Yes, I do seriously think that Google does not use anonymous telemetry for ad targeting.
      - fsflover 7mo ago
        Do you have any reason to think this? Why would Google refuse to earn more money?
  - dmantis 7mo ago
    Do you imply that it's not possible for the US intelligence agencies to request this data from google per person of interest and deliver some information from the metadata? I heavily doubt that.
AJ007 7mo ago
Are you a lobbyist for Google, Apple, Meta, or the adtech industry? Because if you aren't, you are parroting their bullshit.
- dns_snek 7mo ago
  Save your keystrokes. I think I've seen that nickname express anti-consumer, pro-corporate, freedom-violating viewpoints in dozens of different threads on a pretty wide variety of topics at this point. Not once have I seen them take the pro-consumer stance.
  - charcircuit 7mo ago
    The pro consumer standpoint is overly represented on this platform so often I can simply upvote points I agree with.
- charcircuit 7mo ago
  I am not a lobbyist, but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society and I am familiar with the common arguments and strategies people try and use to undermine it and sow distrust.
  - allarm 7mo ago
    > I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society good one, very funny.
  - fsflover 7mo ago
    Any articles highlighting the great value?
  - newdee 7mo ago
    Genuinely curious to hear what great value you think is being delivered to society by adtech.
  - jamesnorden 7mo ago
    >but I do recognize the great value the adtech industry provides to society Ok, so you're trolling then.
haagch 7mo ago
It really doesn't matter. When you power on an android smartphone with google play installed for the first time you are presented with a gate screen that asks you to consent to google's privacy policy. You can't use the phone without accepting. (for example https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-without-consenting-to-googles-tos/81716 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/finalising-the-setup-wizard-wi...) Using smartphones with such a setup should not become required by a European government on a fundamental level.
- illiac786 7mo ago
  It really does. Just calling everything racism makes racism acceptable to a lot of people. Telemetry/tracking feels a more appropriate wording than “surveillance”. Exaggeration (in case it was one, not sure) also does not make an argument more compelling – quite the apposite with me at least. And I use AdGuardHome, uBlock, VPNs, etc. I HATE tracking. But it’s not what the Chinese government does to their citizens for example, it’s not comparable.