6 ms·

I live in Rwanda and see kids playing with the trash/string balls all the time (among other toys they build out of random waste). I really don't see the point.

I live in Rwanda and see kids playing with the trash/string balls all the time (among other toys they build out of random waste). I really don't see the point. The kids have plenty of fun with their homegrown balls. Just as the cardboard box the toy came in came be more fun than the toy alone, the fun of playing with a ball doesn't come from it being a 'proper' ball, but rather than it is a game to be played with others. This is a first world solution to a problem that it created to make itself feel warm and fuzzy inside.

filip01 14y ago
Do you play soccer? For someone with a real appreciation for the game, I'd say there's a huge difference between a trash/string ball and a proper soccer ball. Or maybe I'm just narrow minded.
- hammock 14y ago
  And this ball probably isn't for) those people. Sort of how you can tell when a basketball or a football is not regulation, or one of those self-inflating ones. It's just not the same and won't satisfy a player who wants a "proper" ball (get them a regulation ball)
  - timeshifter 14y ago
    Would you rather have a ball made out of trash that falls apart when you kick it, a "proper" ball that gets torn to shreds, or this "not regulation" ball that can withstand any abuse you throw at it? This seems like a no-brainer to me. These kids don't need a regulation ball, and they deserve better than trash.
  - stevesearer 14y ago
    Obviously the ball isn't the same as a regulation ball, but the point is that the game is not being played on pristine World Cup pitches, but rather in dirt lots, streets, on cement, etc... So rather than sending over inflatable balls that are essentially unusable and thrown away after only a few uses, why not offer something more durable that is very similar.
- stevesearer 14y ago
  I agree. While I don't live in Rwanda, I have been there a couple times and played soccer both with college students and young children. In all instances, we played with the best ball available.
  - abrahamepton 14y ago
    It's about as far to the other extreme as possible, but when I worked at Google and we'd play soccer after work, there were usually a couple balls available and we always played with the best one we could. Better balls feel better against your feet, do what you're expecting them to do, and increase your enjoyment of the game. If you're a kid anywhere, and you have a choice between a ball that bounces well and has a sweet spot that lets it leap off your foot and doesn't hurt or make you bleed when you get smacked in the face with it, you.will.prefer.that.ball.every.single.time.
- juliano_q 14y ago
  I agree. As a brazilian I grew up playing soccer with anything available, and the joy to have a proper ball for a kid is amazing. Also there is a much better chance for a kid to evolve his skills and maybe be a professional player if he have a decent ball to learn the game.
NathanKP 14y ago
I've never played soccer with a ball made of trash but I'm sure that this ball would be seen as better by any child comparing it to a ball made of trash. Sure first world quality soccer balls aren't necessary for children to have fun, but there is nothing wrong with an intelligent entrepreneur making them available to third world children. If we all spent more time on projects like this instead of the next Twitter, or designing new weapons the world would arguably end up a better place.
- DanBC 14y ago
  > but there is nothing wrong with an intelligent entrepreneur making them available to third world children. Unless money is diverted from more useful projects to buying balls? I don't have enough information to say. Personally, I think this is a good project.
  - NathanKP 14y ago
    Unless money is diverted from more useful projects to buying balls? Fair enough. If this project siphoned off money that would have been used to provide food or medical aid then it could be seen as a waste. But it sounds like there is a mix of corporate sponsors providing money and a One Laptop Per Child style "buy two, get one" program for the general public.
    - stevesearer 14y ago
      I also think that this durable ball is actually a savings as it will last many lifetimes of previously donated inflatable balls.
    - Gregorein 14y ago
      Fair? I don't think so: the "waste" is providing the money for food, instead of teaching them how to farm their own food, teaching them where and how to build good well. And the most important (so I think) – Giving them their original African seeds instead of our weaker and GMOded one It's like giving them a fish instead of a fishing pole… If we will provide them food, they'll grow even more dependent on us :/ Is that fair?
antidoh 14y ago
The guy making the ball didn't create the problem, except in a very indirect and academic way. He certainly can't stop the problem. But he can can make a contribution today. Good on him.
corin_ 14y ago
It's not a problem that needs to be solved, but that doesn't mean an improvement isn't worth having. I went to a private school in England - about as far removed as the kids this ball is aimed at - and therefore for us money was never the problem, but sometimes due to various reasons we'd be playing football in school breaks using a tennis ball, and we'd much preferred to have a real football to play with but happened not to that day. That doesn't take away from the fact that we still enjoyed ourselves with the tennis ball, and no doubt if circumstances had required it we could have enjoyed ourselves with a self-made ball. The current solution doesn't have to be unenjoyable for this to be a great improvement
brudgers 14y ago
The durable ball potentially changes the economics of building community organizations based upon sports. Organized sport may be used as a less belligerent means of expressing community solidarity and a relatively healthy outlet for rivalries between communities. While this may be marketed on the basis of "Do it for the children," sport specifically and play in general are important mechanisms of adult social interaction. Futbol is no more a child's game than dominoes.
- aes256 14y ago
  > Organized sport may be used as a less belligerent means of expressing community solidarity and a relatively healthy outlet for rivalries between communities. Tangentially related to this point, I've often wondered if this is simply a zero-sum game, and the unity you gain through supporting a particular team comes at the cost of disunity with supporters of other teams. Sports team rivalries produce all kinds of stupidity the world over. People are routinely killed or severely injured simply because of the sports team they support.
  - brudgers 14y ago
    Soccer balls are probably a less volatile export than religion.
  - anothermachine 14y ago
    Supporters of the other team are far away and have discounted relevance to your life.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
DanielStraight 14y ago
I see a lot of reasons to think otherwise: According to the article, regular balls are already being donated but usually go flat quickly. This basically means donations are currently being wasted. If this wasted money can be redirected into something which will not be wasted, that seems like a definite win. Further, balls are not just used for neighborhood games, but by organizations which use football as a tool for reaching other goals. If these organization are at all helpful, scrounging in the trash for materials to make balls is probably not a good use of their time. An organization may need dozens of balls, and if a trash ball only lasts for an hour (just a guess, I've never played football with a trash ball), then they may need over a hundred of them a day. The opportunity cost of the time spent making trash balls is probably higher than the cost of these balls, especially if they can truly last for years. You could apply the same thinking about opportunity cost to the children's time. If play is important for children and if making balls out of trash is not play, then giving them more time to focus on play is a win. Having cool things seems to be universally enjoyable. This gives the children something cool, probably adding to the fun of playing. Digging in the trash is probably a lot less safe than playing football. According to the corporation's website, 20 million deflated balls are discarded in Africa every year. If these balls last longer, there will be an environmental impact. And finally, the main ways other charity attempts backfire (economic damage, not meeting the whole need [providing things the community can't maintain/support], giving a fish instead of teaching to fish, etc) seem to just not apply.
- michael37 14y ago
  Agree with most points, a real football beats trash and amplifies the positive experience many time over.
- rowanseymour 14y ago
  I also live in Rwanda and whilst I don't agree with my friend's argument that playing football with a piece of trash is as much fun as playing with a real ball, I do agree with his conclusion that this a solution looking for a problem. There's no doubt that kids will be happy if you give them a shiny new football. They'll also be happy if you give them a secondhand t-shirt or new pair of shoes. That makes for lots of donor 'feel good' and nice photos on your Facebook page, but that doesn't make it good aid. If the priority here is to do something helpful for the developing world, and that's why they're willing to put all the required effort and money into this project, then why not start by asking the developing world what their pressing problems are? Ask a few developing country governments and see how many of them report a lack of good footballs as a pressing problem. When people don't ask questions like that it's usually an indication that the aid is more about the donor than the recipient. This project sounds a lot like TOMS Shoes Buy One Give One which has been frequently criticized for being a donor oriented initiative with little long term benefit [1]. It might sound completely harmless to hand out free shoes to kids, but it ends up undermining local producers and sellers, and perpetuates a 'handout' aid culture. [1] http://goodintents.org/in-kind-donations/toms-shoes http://goodintents.org/in-kind-donations/toms-shoes http://www.nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=2345 http://www.nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=2345
curiousDog 14y ago
I strongly disagree. I grew up in uganda as an expat's kid (age 1-15). I used to play everyday with a lot of kids in the neighborhood. I was the only one with an actual fifa ball and they always waited for me with giddy eyes to show up on the local grounds despite having their own ingenious banana bark and kavera (plastic bag) balls. I made sure to give each one of them a ball when i left and most of them still treasured them when i went back a year ago. Sometimes it's not about a warm and fuzzy feeling. You have to see first hand how these kids live.
- egonschiele 14y ago
  I grew up in India and totally agree. Sure, playing with friends is what made it fun. But it was always better to play with durable toys. Nothing kills fun faster than a torn rubber ball during a game of cricket.
- rowanseymour 14y ago
  Happy kids doesn't equal good aid. Are those footballs helping to improve the long term living conditions of those kids? If we have money and resources to help the developing world, assuming that actually is our goal, then shouldn't we strive to find interventions that actually have lasting impact?
  - anothermachine 14y ago
    You are pushing a bit hard there. What is point of having a lasting impact? So that people can can life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness Happy kids does not equal good aid? Really?
    - rowanseymour 14y ago
      Uh no. The goal of good aid/development is to help countries develop their economies, infrastructure and institutions so that people have access to education, healthcare and decent paying jobs... and are enabled to pursue their own ideas of happiness... rather than settle for a free football Handing out money to kids would make them happy too, but would also not be good aid
shardling 14y ago
You could try asking the kids which they'd prefer.
vacri 14y ago
It's nice to know that you've decided that your local kids are having enough fun, and that you've decided that there's a ceiling to it that they don't need to cross. Ah, how I wish I had been told when I was younger "no more Lego for you, you're having plenty of fun with the one set you do have". I needed to have my wings clipped for my own good!

filip01 14y ago

Do you play soccer? For someone with a real appreciation for the game, I'd say there's a huge difference between a trash/string ball and a proper soccer ball. Or maybe I'm just narrow minded.

hammock 14y ago
And this ball probably isn't for) those people. Sort of how you can tell when a basketball or a football is not regulation, or one of those self-inflating ones. It's just not the same and won't satisfy a player who wants a "proper" ball (get them a regulation ball)
- timeshifter 14y ago
  Would you rather have a ball made out of trash that falls apart when you kick it, a "proper" ball that gets torn to shreds, or this "not regulation" ball that can withstand any abuse you throw at it? This seems like a no-brainer to me. These kids don't need a regulation ball, and they deserve better than trash.
- stevesearer 14y ago
  Obviously the ball isn't the same as a regulation ball, but the point is that the game is not being played on pristine World Cup pitches, but rather in dirt lots, streets, on cement, etc... So rather than sending over inflatable balls that are essentially unusable and thrown away after only a few uses, why not offer something more durable that is very similar.
stevesearer 14y ago
I agree. While I don't live in Rwanda, I have been there a couple times and played soccer both with college students and young children. In all instances, we played with the best ball available.
- abrahamepton 14y ago
  It's about as far to the other extreme as possible, but when I worked at Google and we'd play soccer after work, there were usually a couple balls available and we always played with the best one we could. Better balls feel better against your feet, do what you're expecting them to do, and increase your enjoyment of the game. If you're a kid anywhere, and you have a choice between a ball that bounces well and has a sweet spot that lets it leap off your foot and doesn't hurt or make you bleed when you get smacked in the face with it, you.will.prefer.that.ball.every.single.time.
juliano_q 14y ago
I agree. As a brazilian I grew up playing soccer with anything available, and the joy to have a proper ball for a kid is amazing. Also there is a much better chance for a kid to evolve his skills and maybe be a professional player if he have a decent ball to learn the game.

NathanKP 14y ago

I've never played soccer with a ball made of trash but I'm sure that this ball would be seen as better by any child comparing it to a ball made of trash. Sure first world quality soccer balls aren't necessary for children to have fun, but there is nothing wrong with an intelligent entrepreneur making them available to third world children. If we all spent more time on projects like this instead of the next Twitter, or designing new weapons the world would arguably end up a better place.

DanBC 14y ago
> but there is nothing wrong with an intelligent entrepreneur making them available to third world children. Unless money is diverted from more useful projects to buying balls? I don't have enough information to say. Personally, I think this is a good project.
- NathanKP 14y ago
  Unless money is diverted from more useful projects to buying balls? Fair enough. If this project siphoned off money that would have been used to provide food or medical aid then it could be seen as a waste. But it sounds like there is a mix of corporate sponsors providing money and a One Laptop Per Child style "buy two, get one" program for the general public.
  - stevesearer 14y ago
    I also think that this durable ball is actually a savings as it will last many lifetimes of previously donated inflatable balls.
  - Gregorein 14y ago
    Fair? I don't think so: the "waste" is providing the money for food, instead of teaching them how to farm their own food, teaching them where and how to build good well. And the most important (so I think) – Giving them their original African seeds instead of our weaker and GMOded one It's like giving them a fish instead of a fishing pole… If we will provide them food, they'll grow even more dependent on us :/ Is that fair?

antidoh 14y ago

The guy making the ball didn't create the problem, except in a very indirect and academic way. He certainly can't stop the problem. But he can can make a contribution today. Good on him.

corin_ 14y ago

It's not a problem that needs to be solved, but that doesn't mean an improvement isn't worth having. I went to a private school in England - about as far removed as the kids this ball is aimed at - and therefore for us money was never the problem, but sometimes due to various reasons we'd be playing football in school breaks using a tennis ball, and we'd much preferred to have a real football to play with but happened not to that day. That doesn't take away from the fact that we still enjoyed ourselves with the tennis ball, and no doubt if circumstances had required it we could have enjoyed ourselves with a self-made ball. The current solution doesn't have to be unenjoyable for this to be a great improvement

brudgers 14y ago

The durable ball potentially changes the economics of building community organizations based upon sports. Organized sport may be used as a less belligerent means of expressing community solidarity and a relatively healthy outlet for rivalries between communities. While this may be marketed on the basis of "Do it for the children," sport specifically and play in general are important mechanisms of adult social interaction. Futbol is no more a child's game than dominoes.

aes256 14y ago
> Organized sport may be used as a less belligerent means of expressing community solidarity and a relatively healthy outlet for rivalries between communities. Tangentially related to this point, I've often wondered if this is simply a zero-sum game, and the unity you gain through supporting a particular team comes at the cost of disunity with supporters of other teams. Sports team rivalries produce all kinds of stupidity the world over. People are routinely killed or severely injured simply because of the sports team they support.
- brudgers 14y ago
  Soccer balls are probably a less volatile export than religion.
- anothermachine 14y ago
  Supporters of the other team are far away and have discounted relevance to your life.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

DanielStraight 14y ago

I see a lot of reasons to think otherwise: According to the article, regular balls are already being donated but usually go flat quickly. This basically means donations are currently being wasted. If this wasted money can be redirected into something which will not be wasted, that seems like a definite win. Further, balls are not just used for neighborhood games, but by organizations which use football as a tool for reaching other goals. If these organization are at all helpful, scrounging in the trash for materials to make balls is probably not a good use of their time. An organization may need dozens of balls, and if a trash ball only lasts for an hour (just a guess, I've never played football with a trash ball), then they may need over a hundred of them a day. The opportunity cost of the time spent making trash balls is probably higher than the cost of these balls, especially if they can truly last for years. You could apply the same thinking about opportunity cost to the children's time. If play is important for children and if making balls out of trash is not play, then giving them more time to focus on play is a win. Having cool things seems to be universally enjoyable. This gives the children something cool, probably adding to the fun of playing. Digging in the trash is probably a lot less safe than playing football. According to the corporation's website, 20 million deflated balls are discarded in Africa every year. If these balls last longer, there will be an environmental impact. And finally, the main ways other charity attempts backfire (economic damage, not meeting the whole need [providing things the community can't maintain/support], giving a fish instead of teaching to fish, etc) seem to just not apply.

michael37 14y ago
Agree with most points, a real football beats trash and amplifies the positive experience many time over.
rowanseymour 14y ago
I also live in Rwanda and whilst I don't agree with my friend's argument that playing football with a piece of trash is as much fun as playing with a real ball, I do agree with his conclusion that this a solution looking for a problem. There's no doubt that kids will be happy if you give them a shiny new football. They'll also be happy if you give them a secondhand t-shirt or new pair of shoes. That makes for lots of donor 'feel good' and nice photos on your Facebook page, but that doesn't make it good aid. If the priority here is to do something helpful for the developing world, and that's why they're willing to put all the required effort and money into this project, then why not start by asking the developing world what their pressing problems are? Ask a few developing country governments and see how many of them report a lack of good footballs as a pressing problem. When people don't ask questions like that it's usually an indication that the aid is more about the donor than the recipient. This project sounds a lot like TOMS Shoes Buy One Give One which has been frequently criticized for being a donor oriented initiative with little long term benefit [1]. It might sound completely harmless to hand out free shoes to kids, but it ends up undermining local producers and sellers, and perpetuates a 'handout' aid culture. [1] http://goodintents.org/in-kind-donations/toms-shoes http://goodintents.org/in-kind-donations/toms-shoes http://www.nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=2345 http://www.nextbillion.net/blogpost.aspx?blogid=2345

curiousDog 14y ago

I strongly disagree. I grew up in uganda as an expat's kid (age 1-15). I used to play everyday with a lot of kids in the neighborhood. I was the only one with an actual fifa ball and they always waited for me with giddy eyes to show up on the local grounds despite having their own ingenious banana bark and kavera (plastic bag) balls. I made sure to give each one of them a ball when i left and most of them still treasured them when i went back a year ago. Sometimes it's not about a warm and fuzzy feeling. You have to see first hand how these kids live.

egonschiele 14y ago
I grew up in India and totally agree. Sure, playing with friends is what made it fun. But it was always better to play with durable toys. Nothing kills fun faster than a torn rubber ball during a game of cricket.
rowanseymour 14y ago
Happy kids doesn't equal good aid. Are those footballs helping to improve the long term living conditions of those kids? If we have money and resources to help the developing world, assuming that actually is our goal, then shouldn't we strive to find interventions that actually have lasting impact?
- anothermachine 14y ago
  You are pushing a bit hard there. What is point of having a lasting impact? So that people can can life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness Happy kids does not equal good aid? Really?
  - rowanseymour 14y ago
    Uh no. The goal of good aid/development is to help countries develop their economies, infrastructure and institutions so that people have access to education, healthcare and decent paying jobs... and are enabled to pursue their own ideas of happiness... rather than settle for a free football Handing out money to kids would make them happy too, but would also not be good aid

shardling 14y ago

You could try asking the kids which they'd prefer.

vacri 14y ago

It's nice to know that you've decided that your local kids are having enough fun, and that you've decided that there's a ceiling to it that they don't need to cross. Ah, how I wish I had been told when I was younger "no more Lego for you, you're having plenty of fun with the one set you do have". I needed to have my wings clipped for my own good!