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Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers. Contrar

• bsjdjdkdkdkdk 7mo ago
  [flagged]
• saulpw 7mo ago
  From your first link, it says 10% of 28k employees in India were cut. I personally know several people who were laid off from Oracle this week (OCI). One person who's still there described it as a "bloodbath across our division" and says he counted 15k. I don't know what exactly he was counting but as we're in North America I am assuming they're all here. Whereas India layoffs were fewer than 3k. So that directly disputes your statement that "they've barely fired any American workers".
  • pj_mukh 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    • dominotw 7mo ago
      > The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers. Why dont you address your blatant lie here instead of going on cringy pie tangent?
  • george916a 7mo ago
    [flagged]
  • VonGuard 7mo ago
    Can confirm. Friend laid off on team of 15, that team is now down to 7. They built datacenters, too. US based. That's, sorta concerning since I thought their entire future bag was making datacenters......
  • nnurmanov 7mo ago
    [dead]
• iugtmkbdfil834 7mo ago
  << HN should know this HN does know. Some of us question whether brave and courageous leadership knows.
• deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
• pnw 7mo ago
  Oracle laid off 491 people in Seattle this week.
  • jmspring 7mo ago
    [flagged]
• Noumenon72 7mo ago
  Your [3] shows that the government enforces paying H1-Bs competitive salaries, not that it cares about the Americans they replaced.
  • pj_mukh 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    • nobodyandproud 7mo ago
      Easier to fire? Still costs less? Do what they’re told, because they’re chained to the company and job?
    • mulmen 7mo ago
      Because their H1B status is tied to their job so they will put up with way more abuse.
      • thesmtsolver2 7mo ago
        Is there any data on this at all?
        • mulmen 7mo ago
          H-1B is a non-immigrant work visa. This should be enough information for you to understand the incentives.
          • thesmtsolver2 7mo ago
            So, there is no data. Understood.
            • mulmen 7mo ago
              What data is it you expect to see?
• starik36 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment Then why does it take months and months for even experienced devs to land a job?
  • JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > why does it take months and months for even experienced devs to land a job? Software is undergoing a secular downsizing. It increasingly looks like we have too many SWEs, and that we need to support them retraining. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a labor shortage in other industries.
    • remarkEon 7mo ago
      I'm not disputing what you're saying in your comment necessarily, and supposing it's true for a moment ... why are we granting any visas at all here?
      • foldr 7mo ago
        The presupposition behind that question is that immigration is a necessary evil to be limited as much as possible. I am not American, but that strikes me as an ironic position for Americans to take.
        • remarkEon 7mo ago
          Why? Seems in line with prior oscillations on sentiment toward immigration.
          • foldr 7mo ago
            Sure, but it was ironic then too.
            • remarkEon 7mo ago
              How so? I really don't follow.
• toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3]. Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223719 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45223719 - September 2025 (526 comments) Job Listing Site Highlighting H-1B Positions So Americans Can Apply - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321 - August 2025 (108 comments) H-1B Middlemen Bring Cheap Labor to Citi, Capital One - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44398978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44398978 - June 2025 (4 comments) Jury finds Cognizant discriminated against US workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42385000 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42385000 - December 2024 (65 comments) How middlemen are gaming the H-1B program - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41123945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41123945 - July 2024 (57 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42454509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42454509 (additional citations)
  • pj_mukh 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    • toomuchtodo 7mo ago
      I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data. As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences." The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).
• raw_anon_1111 7mo ago
  It is not illegal to lay off Americans and expand offices overseas. I’m not saying that’s what Oracle is doing.
• luckydata 7mo ago
  If America is at near full employment why don't I have a job after looking for 6 months. This is a load of nonsense.
  • xboxnolifes 7mo ago
    Because the employment is full, sorry, no more jobs available /s. (Im in the same boat, but much longer than 6 months)
  • 999900000999 7mo ago
    Have you been down to Amazon. Not Amazon corporate, Amazon Warehouse or Amazon flex delivery. With the gig economy as long as you can make 50$ a day via Uber Eats , you might be considered “employed”. For the days I need to be in the office, my commute is well over 2 hours each way. Pay cuts, horrible commutes.
  • Muromec 7mo ago
    You are looking for a good job, not any job. Capital allocator decided that you do not deserve a good one anymore. Time to shake the fist at the sky and blame the times.
• darth_avocado 7mo ago
  Also to cut through the headlines once again. What the article actually says: > Federal data shows Oracle filed for 2,690 H-1B visas in fiscal year 2025 and 436 so far in fiscal year 2026, totaling over 3,100 visa requests. There is no proof that these people were also not part of the layoffs. Typically in layoffs, until the day off the announcement, it’s just business as usual. Which means people keep getting hired and H1B petitions being filed. The article doesn’t say they filed these petitions AFTER the layoffs.
  • dcreater 7mo ago
    Yes, Its sad to see the reactionary hate triggered by a misleading article. The number from 2025 is not really relevant when the layoffs were in March 2026. The article author clearly has a narrative they want to push. And of the 436 petitions in 2026, only 235 are new hires (remaining are continuing approvals). Hardly a scandal there. Especially if they're likely hiring AI engineers and laying off call center employees - its not like their laying off an american citizen to hire a cheap H1B employee as this article is angling to have the reader believe.
    • grumpy_coder 7mo ago
      The cuts include workers in senior director and vice president roles, as well as managers, product developers, product managers, program managers, software developers, site reliability developers, technical analysts, user experience developers and others. They are in no-way laying off call center employees, they are laying off tens of thousands of the most highly paid US workers. And yes the numbers of H1Bs granted in 2025 is relevant. You don't layoff 20% of your 100,000+ people workforce all of a sudden 'cos March went badly.
      • darth_avocado 7mo ago
        > And yes the numbers of H1Bs granted in 2025 is relevant. You don't layoff 20% of your 100,000+ people workforce all of a sudden 'cos March went badly. You don’t know that the layoffs are happening tomorrow. That’s how layoffs work. Except for a few in the loop everyone else is largely in the dark. Hiring doesn’t stop, whether it’s us citizens or it’s H1Bs. 2025 hiring, whether H1B or not, is immaterial here. Here’s an example of this: Coinbase reneged offers at the last minute. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coinbase-rescinds-accepted-job-offers-17217989.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Coinbase-rescinds-acc... I can share plenty more if you’d like.
• MSM 7mo ago
  Either I'm stupid or [2] doesn't actually say anything at all. It starts with "in 2025..." And later talks about how estimates are expected to rise in 2023 and beyond while referencing data that ended in 1988. What am I missing? "In 2025, it was estimated that over 163 million Americans were in some form of employment, while 4.16 percent of the total workforce was unemployed. This was the lowest unemployment rate since the 1950s, although these figures are expected to rise in 2023 and beyond."
  • janalsncm 7mo ago
    Unemployment rate is tricky because there’s a lot of related statuses a person could have. So the Fed has 7 different rates U1 through U7. Here is U6 which is a better reflection imo: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
  • rayiner 7mo ago
    > This was the lowest unemployment rate since the 1950s, This is only true if you define “unemployment” narrowly to exclude people who are in school. In 1950, you could get a job out of high school. Today, you need to spend four years in college, sometimes more. Counting people who are in school as “not unemployed” ignores the opportunity cost of school. You’re spending 4 years in the prime of your life. And during that time you’re not earning any income, but instead paying money. So even if eventually your job prospects are as good as they were in 1950, clearly the economy isn’t as good as it was when you could hit that same rate without people making that up front investment.
• janalsncm 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment Pretty sure that is the U3 rate which only counts people as unemployed if they are actively looking for a job. The U6 is better and rarely falls below 5%: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE
  • b112 7mo ago
    Same issue in my country with employment rates. Yes, some of those have been looking for work for so long that they slide from looking to "not looking" automatically. However at the same time, some of those people actually don't want to work. And if they don't want to work, why would that impinge upon full employment, because what is the plan? Force people to work who are retired, or don't want to? Work or go to jail? "Full employment" is always presumed to be "people wanting to work can find it".
    • AlexCoventry 7mo ago
      Giving up looking is not necessarily the same as not wanting a job.
      • b112 7mo ago
        Yes, that's why I specifically mentioned it. If the best data you have is conjoined, then you must either figure it out, or ignore it. Do you know what percentage, exactly, are retired vs "giving uo"? No? Then when someone says full employment, they're right unless you have specific and precise data to counter that. We could also discuss people too sick to work. Or on maternity leave. Or wealth vs desire to work. Or 100 other factors.
        • xp84 7mo ago
          > Then when someone says full employment, they're right unless That's odd. The burden of proof is not exclusively on one side.
          • 7mo ago
• cineticdaffodil 7mo ago
  How does indian software indus try handle the llm wave?
• mandeepj 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment [2] That can’t be further from the truth
• rayiner 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment What America is full of is fake employment statistics that are artificially inflated by young people hiding out in school to avoid the bad job market.
  • oa335 7mo ago
    Prime age employment is near all time highs: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060 20-24 age employment has been about the same for last 16 years: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300036 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300036
    • rayiner 7mo ago
      It’s not at all time highs. Your chart combines the data for both genders, which causes the decline in employment to be masked by the separate trend of women working outside the home. Male prime age employment is down 10 percentage points from 1955: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LRAC25MAUSM156S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LRAC25MAUSM156S Male 20-24 employment rate is down 14 percentage points since 1960: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_labor_force_participation_rate_men_age_20_to_24 https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_labor_force_participation_...
      • oa335 7mo ago
        A higher percentage of prime age adults are working outside the house than almost any time in recent US history. I don’t understand why an analysis of the state of US employment should exclude women, can you please expand on your reasoning?
        • rayiner 7mo ago
          The analysis has to compare apples to apples. Raising families and homemaking is also work. Women going to work outside the home reflects a change in the type of work, not the employment level. But your analysis artificially treats them as having been out of work before and now employed.
• to11mtm 7mo ago
  ... Uhhhhh.... > IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required. You are stating what IT people understand and are blatantly ignoring the realities of many companies. I've been at more than one shop that decided to do layoffs in a 'corporate' way and the people who knew the system were let go, the people who didn't know a class from a function were kept around, and the smart people from other teams have to jump in and pick up the slack. And that's not event getting into outsourcing/etc, that's just basic corporate stupidity. > America is at near full employment [2]. Doesn't tell the full story, i.e. under-employment where someone's working at a Walmart with a CS degree; They're still 'employed' but it's not in their field. > Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3]. A Single link to a single enforcement action only resulting in < 180K USD for damages is not a great example of enforcement. Outsourcing companies prey on gaps in US tax code and the like to make it 'look' cheaper to outsource, except for the huge maintenance cost for the trash that comes out. And, some of that is the fault of the company procuring those services too. They don't give good enough requirements, they take too long to figure stuff out... And yet I've found a niche specifically around spending half of my day reviewing pull requests from offshore houses where, requirements be damned, it's obvious the contractor is either overworking employees, letting incompetent employees in, or the employees think they can cheat and put code that 'just happens to work under testing' but inevitably will break under any stress. But at the end of the day you can still do it. WITCH consultancies have seeped into a number of our industries and all the average consumer can do is bitch about how every software product or interaction UX from the providing companies has gotten so much worse.
• noosphr 7mo ago
  If America was near full employment you'd be seeing real wage growth. Something that's not existed since the 1970s.
  • JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
    > real wage growth. Something that's not existed since the 1970s Real wages are 15% higher than they were in 1979 [1]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q
    • noosphr 7mo ago
      That is not hourly earnings. Americans are working longer than they did in 1970. On top of that even if we take your link at face value that's a 0.35% growth per year. The medieval warm period had faster wage growth.
      • JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
        > That is not hourly earnings Hourly earnings (nominal) have grown at 3.2% per year between 2006 and 2025 [1]. Inflation in that interval was 2.7% [2]. > Americans are working longer than they did in 1970 Source? These data show hours worked are down [3]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003 [2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=200601&year2=202602 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=200601... [3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=18H2H https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=18H2H
        • noosphr 7mo ago
          If you look very carefully you can notice that 2006 is not 1970. >Source? These data show hours worked are down [3]. https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/october/how-hours-americans-work-compare-rest-world https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/october/how-h...
• dzonga 7mo ago
  > America is at near full employment Hope you're not saying this at social gatherings. What the newspapers(economists | politicians) say, is not reality for most people.
  • fc417fc802 7mo ago
    It completely disregards underemployment and very borderline at risk employment. It's effectively a form of lying with technically correct statistics.
• patja 7mo ago
  491 Oracle jobs cut in Washington State isn't nothing
• smsm42 7mo ago
  I din't know which planet you are on, but on this one replacing is enforced extremely infrequently, and anybody who had to deal with the process knows it. Your example, where they catch the whopping 12 (!) cases - out of almost 100k h1bs per year - is only a testament of how small the enforcement is.