3 ms·

You mock, but not very persuasively. You seem to be relying on a silly idea you don't even believe in: that someone, once, made fun of C programming.

operatingthetan 6mo ago
>AI is not real coding any more than The Sims is homemaking. Your analogy is bad. The programmer and the AI both produce working code. The other poster's response was correct.
- bigstrat2003 6mo ago
  The AI does not, in fact, produce working code.
- recursive 6mo ago
  I believe that someone can get it to produce working code. Whenever I press the button though, I'm not getting great results.
napsec 6mo ago
I can't speak personally to what it was like to be a C developer in the early days of that language, but when I started out as a Ruby on Rails developer over a decade ago I was definitely told by some people that it didn't count as 'real programing' because of how much was abstracted away by the framework.
- SpaceNoodled 6mo ago
  I have some bad news for you
mikkupikku 6mo ago
Mocking? I'm quoting exactly the sort of thing that used to be said in earnest in the 80s and 90s. What you're doing now is exactly the same thing, there's no difference at all. Its the same reaction borne from the same old man instinct to bitch about the kids going soft. Yawn.
- skydhash 6mo ago
  Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft. Also software was always about domain knowledge and formal reasoning. Coding is just notation. Someone may like paper and pen, and someone may like a typewriter, but ultimately it’s the writing that matters. Correctness of a program does not depends on the language (and the cpu only manipulate electric flow). I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code. They just want to produce lots of it (the resurgence of the flawed LoC metric as a badge of honor).
  - signatoremo 6mo ago
    > I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code. This is remarkably sloppy for someone who codes. No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence.
    - skydhash 6mo ago
      > No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence Strong opinions, loosely held. What I’ve seen seems to confirm that opinion, so I’m still holding on to it.
      - mikkupikku 6mo ago
        > Strong opinions, loosely held. Yes doctor, but enough about my stool.
  - mikkupikku 6mo ago
    > Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft Most programmers didn't have access to anything so fancy as those, in fact most programmers considered access to a C compiler to be an extravagant flex well into the 80s. By the 90s they were well available and you had a new generation of programmers that started out with C, encountering older programmers who started out writing assembly for their z80s, the latter of whole were constantly sneering at kids going soft. Starting when I was about 10, I learned BASIC (not a real language, I was constantly told), z80, then C (a "high level" language) for the m68k. I encountered all of the attitudes I know see ITT being thrown at programmers using coding agents. Hell, I would bet money on some of those exact same old farts still lurking IRC channels, occasionally waking up like Rip Van Winkle to grumble about kids taking old ubiquitous technology for granted now.

operatingthetan 6mo ago

>AI is not real coding any more than The Sims is homemaking. Your analogy is bad. The programmer and the AI both produce working code. The other poster's response was correct.

bigstrat2003 6mo ago
The AI does not, in fact, produce working code.
recursive 6mo ago
I believe that someone can get it to produce working code. Whenever I press the button though, I'm not getting great results.

napsec 6mo ago

I can't speak personally to what it was like to be a C developer in the early days of that language, but when I started out as a Ruby on Rails developer over a decade ago I was definitely told by some people that it didn't count as 'real programing' because of how much was abstracted away by the framework.

SpaceNoodled 6mo ago
I have some bad news for you

mikkupikku 6mo ago

Mocking? I'm quoting exactly the sort of thing that used to be said in earnest in the 80s and 90s. What you're doing now is exactly the same thing, there's no difference at all. Its the same reaction borne from the same old man instinct to bitch about the kids going soft. Yawn.

skydhash 6mo ago
Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft. Also software was always about domain knowledge and formal reasoning. Coding is just notation. Someone may like paper and pen, and someone may like a typewriter, but ultimately it’s the writing that matters. Correctness of a program does not depends on the language (and the cpu only manipulate electric flow). I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code. They just want to produce lots of it (the resurgence of the flawed LoC metric as a badge of honor).
- signatoremo 6mo ago
  > I argue against AI because most of its users don’t care about the correctness of their code. This is remarkably sloppy for someone who codes. No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence.
  - skydhash 6mo ago
    > No facts, just opinion, claimed with confidence Strong opinions, loosely held. What I’ve seen seems to confirm that opinion, so I’m still holding on to it.
    - mikkupikku 6mo ago
      > Strong opinions, loosely held. Yes doctor, but enough about my stool.
- mikkupikku 6mo ago
  > Both Algol and Lisp were from the 60s. I think programmers and computers scientists were already acquainted with high level programming languages enough to not equate using C as going soft Most programmers didn't have access to anything so fancy as those, in fact most programmers considered access to a C compiler to be an extravagant flex well into the 80s. By the 90s they were well available and you had a new generation of programmers that started out with C, encountering older programmers who started out writing assembly for their z80s, the latter of whole were constantly sneering at kids going soft. Starting when I was about 10, I learned BASIC (not a real language, I was constantly told), z80, then C (a "high level" language) for the m68k. I encountered all of the attitudes I know see ITT being thrown at programmers using coding agents. Hell, I would bet money on some of those exact same old farts still lurking IRC channels, occasionally waking up like Rip Van Winkle to grumble about kids taking old ubiquitous technology for granted now.