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>At the global level, 2025 also saw a sharp rebound in non-renewable additions, which nearly doubled compared to 2024," IRENA noted. China led that drive, with

>At the global level, 2025 also saw a sharp rebound in non-renewable additions, which nearly doubled compared to 2024," IRENA noted. China led that drive, with 100 GW of non-renewable capacity added last year, most of which was coal. Why is China adding so many new generation plants powered by coal? On this and other forums, I see claims all the time that solar is cheaper than coal. As the world's leading producer of solar panels, you would think that they would utilize it even more if those claims are true. Is it just the need for power when the sun is not shining? Or is it something else?

danny_codes 6mo ago
Inertia I imagine. Planning cycles can be 10, 20 years, perhaps longer for big infrastructure projects.
matthewdgreen 6mo ago
My understanding is that China is planning to build a coal-backed renewable grid. Renewables, including storage, will provide the majority of the electricity generation, and then coal will step in when renewables aren't available. This involves building modern coal plants that can be spun up and down as needed, and then paying them not to generate. This is why actual emissions have plateaued and dropped, even as new coal capacity comes online. We are (or were) doing something similar in the US, just using natural gas as the fuel rather than coal.
tdb7893 6mo ago
There's a recent AP article talking about this some (I don't know enough to know the quality of the article): https://apnews.com/article/china-coal-solar-climate-carbon-emissions-242abe76eb69f5a362e977de74ff3254 https://apnews.com/article/china-coal-solar-climate-carbon-e...
lenkite 6mo ago
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marcosdumay 6mo ago
- They need something to provide electricity when the sun is not shining, while they install enough batteries and more than enough solar to use during the day and charge those batteries. - They need some backup in case the Sun is dimmed for a few days, while they install enough solar to not need this anymore. - They need some backup in case they grow too fast and the solar installations don't keep up. - They need some backup in case there's some natural catastrophe, or some stupid dictator somewhere decides to start a war or something and destroy some vital energy infrastructure. Their government has explained this a few times, but not on those words. It probably helps that those are government projects, and failing to deliver government projects is a very rude attitude that can end people's careers. But the rationale is sound too.
- fred_is_fred 6mo ago
  "and the solar installations don't keep up.". Whats the average time it takes to build a solar plant versus a coal one? I would assume solar is a lot faster to first production?
  - pixl97 6mo ago
    Probably better to ask how long it takes to build equivalent name plate capacity if both.
    - fred_is_fred 6mo ago
      With a solar plant I assume they can turn it on before it's 100% done right? Harder to do phases with a coal boiler.
  - marcosdumay 6mo ago
    That's completely irrelevant to the issue, though.
    - fred_is_fred 6mo ago
      It's not irrelevant to the comment I was replying to.
decimalenough 6mo ago
Part of China's "new" coal capacity is modern, efficient coal plants with lower emissions being built to replace old, inefficient, highly polluting ones.
- Gibbon1 6mo ago
  Not trying to be offensive or throw shade, but I wouldn't be surprised if the older plants were built fast and cheap and have issues; emissions, efficiency, maintenance, safety.
Veedrac 6mo ago
More than anything it's a supply limit. Solar is consistently scaling about as fast as any manufacturing industry scales. The TAM is just big.
0xbadcafebee 6mo ago
Mostly it's that solar doesn't work at night. That means you have to use batteries, which are impractical to store more than a certain amount of energy, after which you need another very large and stable energy source. So a nation-state that can't go dark must have a constant load source, such as nuclear, hydro, or coal. There's also limitations of geography, industry, production capacity, and other issues.
adev_ 6mo ago
> Why is China adding so many new generation plants powered by coal? On this and other forums, I see claims all the time that solar is cheaper than coal. As the world's leading producer of solar panels, you would think that they would utilize it even more if those claims are true. Because reality is very different of propagandists and lobby reports. Currently, not a single major country right now can afford to have energy storage capacity large enough to pass, even a single day, without sun if running exclusively on solar power. Not even China, the biggest battery provider world wide. Considering that to get a stable and reliable grid, the needed capacity would need to supply for weeks during Dunkelflautes, this is realisitically not going to happen before multiple decades. China has an energy problem it need to solve now: The country is developing so its electricity consumption is growing, rapidly. Their solution is the most pragmatic on short term: Building coal plants. Their long term solution is also the most pragmatic on long term: Using Nuclear energy to support the baseload and a mix of hydro, solar, wind for the peaks.
- Leynos 6mo ago
  Wondered if you were able to suggest what might be stopping large scale build out of sodium ion and redox flow batteries?
bKHjNaz23wJ 6mo ago
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danny_codes 6mo ago

Inertia I imagine. Planning cycles can be 10, 20 years, perhaps longer for big infrastructure projects.

matthewdgreen 6mo ago

My understanding is that China is planning to build a coal-backed renewable grid. Renewables, including storage, will provide the majority of the electricity generation, and then coal will step in when renewables aren't available. This involves building modern coal plants that can be spun up and down as needed, and then paying them not to generate. This is why actual emissions have plateaued and dropped, even as new coal capacity comes online. We are (or were) doing something similar in the US, just using natural gas as the fuel rather than coal.

tdb7893 6mo ago

There's a recent AP article talking about this some (I don't know enough to know the quality of the article): https://apnews.com/article/china-coal-solar-climate-carbon-emissions-242abe76eb69f5a362e977de74ff3254 https://apnews.com/article/china-coal-solar-climate-carbon-e...

lenkite 6mo ago

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marcosdumay 6mo ago

- They need something to provide electricity when the sun is not shining, while they install enough batteries and more than enough solar to use during the day and charge those batteries. - They need some backup in case the Sun is dimmed for a few days, while they install enough solar to not need this anymore. - They need some backup in case they grow too fast and the solar installations don't keep up. - They need some backup in case there's some natural catastrophe, or some stupid dictator somewhere decides to start a war or something and destroy some vital energy infrastructure. Their government has explained this a few times, but not on those words. It probably helps that those are government projects, and failing to deliver government projects is a very rude attitude that can end people's careers. But the rationale is sound too.

fred_is_fred 6mo ago
"and the solar installations don't keep up.". Whats the average time it takes to build a solar plant versus a coal one? I would assume solar is a lot faster to first production?
- pixl97 6mo ago
  Probably better to ask how long it takes to build equivalent name plate capacity if both.
  - fred_is_fred 6mo ago
    With a solar plant I assume they can turn it on before it's 100% done right? Harder to do phases with a coal boiler.
- marcosdumay 6mo ago
  That's completely irrelevant to the issue, though.
  - fred_is_fred 6mo ago
    It's not irrelevant to the comment I was replying to.

decimalenough 6mo ago

Part of China's "new" coal capacity is modern, efficient coal plants with lower emissions being built to replace old, inefficient, highly polluting ones.

Gibbon1 6mo ago
Not trying to be offensive or throw shade, but I wouldn't be surprised if the older plants were built fast and cheap and have issues; emissions, efficiency, maintenance, safety.

Veedrac 6mo ago

More than anything it's a supply limit. Solar is consistently scaling about as fast as any manufacturing industry scales. The TAM is just big.

0xbadcafebee 6mo ago

Mostly it's that solar doesn't work at night. That means you have to use batteries, which are impractical to store more than a certain amount of energy, after which you need another very large and stable energy source. So a nation-state that can't go dark must have a constant load source, such as nuclear, hydro, or coal. There's also limitations of geography, industry, production capacity, and other issues.

adev_ 6mo ago

> Why is China adding so many new generation plants powered by coal? On this and other forums, I see claims all the time that solar is cheaper than coal. As the world's leading producer of solar panels, you would think that they would utilize it even more if those claims are true. Because reality is very different of propagandists and lobby reports. Currently, not a single major country right now can afford to have energy storage capacity large enough to pass, even a single day, without sun if running exclusively on solar power. Not even China, the biggest battery provider world wide. Considering that to get a stable and reliable grid, the needed capacity would need to supply for weeks during Dunkelflautes, this is realisitically not going to happen before multiple decades. China has an energy problem it need to solve now: The country is developing so its electricity consumption is growing, rapidly. Their solution is the most pragmatic on short term: Building coal plants. Their long term solution is also the most pragmatic on long term: Using Nuclear energy to support the baseload and a mix of hydro, solar, wind for the peaks.

Leynos 6mo ago
Wondered if you were able to suggest what might be stopping large scale build out of sodium ion and redox flow batteries?

bKHjNaz23wJ 6mo ago

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