3 ms·

This is one of those stupid, unglamorous works that legitimately facilitates long-term space exploration ambitions in a way just focusing on the sexy bits, e.g.

This is one of those stupid, unglamorous works that legitimately facilitates long-term space exploration ambitions in a way just focusing on the sexy bits, e.g. propulsion.

mememememememo 8mo ago
It is the plumbing, not the porcelain.
trhway 8mo ago
a good attempt at popularization of the issue in Big Bang Theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrX3EmdKtRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrX3EmdKtRc
- czbond 8mo ago
  Haha - I was going to add "so it's a shelf"?
giantrobot 8mo ago
I gauge the seriousness of all manned space exploration proposals by the attention paid to the toilets. If the toilets are not a solved problem with many nines of reliability, you're just writing science function and are not at all serious about actual manned space exploration. Toilets are the brown M&M clause[0] of manned spaceflight proposals. Toilets are unglamorous in the extreme but absolutely vital. Humans make hazardous and potentially deadly waste. Every day. It needs to be safely discarded/contained. In a sealed environment in microgravity it's even more dangerous than it is on Earth. Aerosolized fecal matter can enter the lungs and cause deadly infections. Entering the digestive system can cause debilitating (possibly deadly) illness. Temporary blindness if it gets in the eyes. It can also cause mechanical or electrical problems if it gets in equipment. All of these can lead to a mission failure and in extreme instances a total loss of the crew. Apollo 8 was extremely lucky that Frank Borman's illness didn't cause more problems. If you're not thinking logistics and infrastructure you're not really serious about an endeavor. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-did-van-halen-demand-concert-venues-remove-brown-mms-from-the-menu-180982570/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-did-van-hale...
- mmooss 8mo ago
  I see your point. Out of curiosity: > In a sealed environment in microgravity it's even more dangerous than it is on Earth. / Aerosolized fecal matter can enter the lungs and cause deadly infections. Would the air filtration / recycling system minimize this risk?
  - giantrobot 8mo ago
    The air filtration will actually help spread aerosols because air currents will carry them through the cabin before they're captured by a filter. A high power "eliminate aerosols" mode would be one of those infrastructure things that need to be designed (and tested). Even then a single compartment spacecraft like the Orion or Dragon wouldn't have anywhere for the crew to bivouac while some aerosol evacuation mode was active. So you'd want a whole procedure designed around it. Part of the need for the Apollo Constant Wear Garments was to make up for the lack of faculties in the command module and LEM. Such a thing would be impractical for a long duration mission so toilets (and waste disposal in general) need to be a reliably solved problem.
    - mmooss 8mo ago
      Good points. A few hot takes: > The air filtration will actually help spread aerosols because air currents will carry them through the cabin before they're captured by a filter. The toilet facilities could have input / suction into the air filtration system. Maybe wise anyway. > A high power "eliminate aerosols" mode would be one of those infrastructure things that need to be designed (and tested). I expect the technology is mature in industrial settings, though of course that is much different than microgravity and the constrained resources of the spacecraft. Maybe it exists on the space station? That context still seems significantly different. > a single compartment spacecraft like the Orion or Dragon wouldn't have anywhere for the crew to bivouac In their spacesuits, though their exteriors may need decontamination. Maybe they just go outside, though probably not a great idea to have the entire crew outside the spacecraft simultaneously! Maybe in an emergency.
      - 8mo ago

This is one of those stupid, unglamorous works that legitimately facilitates long-term space exploration ambitions in a way just focusing on the sexy bits, e.g. propulsion.

mememememememo 8mo ago

It is the plumbing, not the porcelain.

trhway 8mo ago

a good attempt at popularization of the issue in Big Bang Theory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrX3EmdKtRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrX3EmdKtRc

czbond 8mo ago
Haha - I was going to add "so it's a shelf"?

giantrobot 8mo ago

I gauge the seriousness of all manned space exploration proposals by the attention paid to the toilets. If the toilets are not a solved problem with many nines of reliability, you're just writing science function and are not at all serious about actual manned space exploration. Toilets are the brown M&M clause[0] of manned spaceflight proposals. Toilets are unglamorous in the extreme but absolutely vital. Humans make hazardous and potentially deadly waste. Every day. It needs to be safely discarded/contained. In a sealed environment in microgravity it's even more dangerous than it is on Earth. Aerosolized fecal matter can enter the lungs and cause deadly infections. Entering the digestive system can cause debilitating (possibly deadly) illness. Temporary blindness if it gets in the eyes. It can also cause mechanical or electrical problems if it gets in equipment. All of these can lead to a mission failure and in extreme instances a total loss of the crew. Apollo 8 was extremely lucky that Frank Borman's illness didn't cause more problems. If you're not thinking logistics and infrastructure you're not really serious about an endeavor. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-did-van-halen-demand-concert-venues-remove-brown-mms-from-the-menu-180982570/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-did-van-hale...

mmooss 8mo ago
I see your point. Out of curiosity: > In a sealed environment in microgravity it's even more dangerous than it is on Earth. / Aerosolized fecal matter can enter the lungs and cause deadly infections. Would the air filtration / recycling system minimize this risk?
- giantrobot 8mo ago
  The air filtration will actually help spread aerosols because air currents will carry them through the cabin before they're captured by a filter. A high power "eliminate aerosols" mode would be one of those infrastructure things that need to be designed (and tested). Even then a single compartment spacecraft like the Orion or Dragon wouldn't have anywhere for the crew to bivouac while some aerosol evacuation mode was active. So you'd want a whole procedure designed around it. Part of the need for the Apollo Constant Wear Garments was to make up for the lack of faculties in the command module and LEM. Such a thing would be impractical for a long duration mission so toilets (and waste disposal in general) need to be a reliably solved problem.
  - mmooss 8mo ago
    Good points. A few hot takes: > The air filtration will actually help spread aerosols because air currents will carry them through the cabin before they're captured by a filter. The toilet facilities could have input / suction into the air filtration system. Maybe wise anyway. > A high power "eliminate aerosols" mode would be one of those infrastructure things that need to be designed (and tested). I expect the technology is mature in industrial settings, though of course that is much different than microgravity and the constrained resources of the spacecraft. Maybe it exists on the space station? That context still seems significantly different. > a single compartment spacecraft like the Orion or Dragon wouldn't have anywhere for the crew to bivouac In their spacesuits, though their exteriors may need decontamination. Maybe they just go outside, though probably not a great idea to have the entire crew outside the spacecraft simultaneously! Maybe in an emergency.
    - 8mo ago