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by bombcar 7mo ago

[flagged]

make_it_sure 7mo ago
[flagged]
spongebobstoes 7mo ago
how long should it take to gain your confidence? how did you arrive at your number? the state of the art of software engineering is to use AI. it's just reality
- hexo 7mo ago
  how long? 10 years
Bnjoroge 7mo ago
There's a big difference between the two. If you still think agent-guided development doesnt work well, you need to update your priors
- marsven_422 7mo ago
  [dead]
- Diti 7mo ago
  The slow enshittification of every product touched by LLMs these last few years (ESPECIALLY by Microsoft, who goes all-in) kind of “disproves” your point. Reliable agent-coded development only seems to work for small codebases. (And it’s amazing in Ruby for some reasons.)
andoando 7mo ago
Agent coded != vibe coded. I don't write code manually anymore, but Im still getting the exact code output that I want.
- hombre_fatal 7mo ago
  It's a tough pill for some HNers to swallow, but with a good process, you can vibe-code really good software, and software far more tested, edge-cased, and thoughtful than you would have come up with, especially for software that isn't that one hobby passion project that you love thinking about.
  - ehutch79 7mo ago
    vibe coding implies a complete lack of process. The definition is basically YOLO.... https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383
    - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
      My process is just getting claude code to generate a plan file and then rinsing it through codex until it has no more advice left. I'd consider it vibe-coding if you never read the code/plan. For example, you could package this up in a bash alias `vibecode "my prompt"` instead of `claude -p "my prompt"` and it surely is still vibe-coding so long as you remain arms length from the plan/code itself.
  - thejazzman 7mo ago
    Shhhhh stop telling them! We don’t need more competition :)
  - hatmanstack 7mo ago
    This, but I think everybody that's awake knows this. I still not a fan of this project regardless, it's polishing a turd.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
  - andoando 7mo ago
    I mean to be fair, if you are using agents more than likely you are not thinking about aspects of the code as deeply as you would have before. If you write things yourself you spend far more time thinking about every little decision that you're making. Even for tests, I always thought the real valuable part of it was that it forced you to think about all the different cases, and that just having bunch of green checkboxes if anything was luring developers into a false sense of security
teekert 7mo ago
I started calling it LLM assisted coding. If you know what you’re doing but use LLMs to do tedious stuff and educate yourself on the unfamiliar bits you can move quite fast. The term vibe coding does not do that process justice imho.
- throwaway613746 7mo ago
  [dead]
- Dylan16807 7mo ago
  > The term vibe coding does not do that process justice imho. Well that's because actual vibe coding is a completely separate thing from "LLM assisted coding, know what you’re doing but use LLMs to do tedious stuff". I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "started calling it", but vibe coding doesn't need a new name, it needs people to be clear about what they mean.
  - teekert 7mo ago
    I think the jury is still out on this one, meaning people have different meanings when using the term "vibe coding". OP says "vibe-coded months long project", imho that is not vibe coding? I'd say it's vibe coding if op does not know the programming language and just let the LLM write everything. This does not sound like it.
- _puk 7mo ago
  Vybrid coding :)
  - teekert 7mo ago
    Well, it's a spectrum indeed, as everything is. As soon as we drawn lines the discussion start on where to draw them exactly. So it's, left to right: One shotting --- vibe coding --- vybrid coding --- stack overflow assisted programming --- programming Do we need any extra dimensions perhaps? ;)
AbraKdabra 7mo ago
This crap thinking has to stop, not everything is "hey agent do this" then sit, wait and publish as is. Also this is a Cloudflare official software, do you REALLY think this is 100% vibe coded without human intervention? Come on...
- well_ackshually 7mo ago
  Considering Cloudflare shat out slop in the form of a "complete rewrite of NextJS in one weekend" and proudly put out a blog post (https://blog.cloudflare.com/vinext/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/vinext/) despite how absolutely dogshit it is: yeah.
- eis 7mo ago
  After https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46781516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46781516 ? Yes, one can unfortunately put that into the realm of reality.
- Dylan16807 7mo ago
  While I agree with your first sentence, I haven't been impressed with cloudflare's AI track record. I think my expectations for "cloudflare software on the HN front page that was significantly AI coded" are lower than "random guy's software on the HN front page that was significantly AI coded".
QuantumGood 7mo ago
What are some other candidates in the "most meaningless new term" awards category? "Vibe coding" seems like the best in a generation. Even with a lot of clarifying qualifications, it often still seems fundamentally meaningless / open to interpretation / triggers commenters based on their priors.
- sillywabbit 7mo ago
  Using the word priors in the way you (and others) do.
penglish1 7mo ago
Exactly. It might be fine. It might even be great! But no matter how much code, including tests that AI can generate there was only one human thinking about those prompts, for a few months. Any defects in that single human's thought process for overall architecture, security architecture, test architecture and coverage were not reviewed by any other human who might think differently and catch things that were missed. Ideally they were all at least reviewed by AI, but how differently operate from itself? It isn't particularly good at detecting its own errors without a human telling it to, which means the human needs to detect it in the first place. Perhaps my most important point here is simply everyone here on HN is aware of all of these things, and as excited as some of us are about AI coded endeavors, the top response here will likely be the top response for many years - how do I know it isn't garbage? AI might be able to generate code fast, but informed users will definitely develop trust in it on a more human time scale. I think the core idea of addressing a core architecture security defect in Wordpress has a legs. I'd make the case that the security architecture demonstrated here is table stakes for new software projects in 2026 when it clearly wasn't really conceivable in 2003. Though I'd also argue that many of the top Wordpress plugins should be shipped as "batteries included" in any successor, spiritual or otherwise - it would remain important to be extensible beyond those, securely. A spiritual successor to Wordpress designed to run modern cloud infrastructure is a neat thing no doubt. But after handling a bunch of horrible Wordpress and PHP stuff in my life lately, I'm tacking a bit of begging onto my hopefully useful response. Someone, anyone, AI coded or not, please work on a COMPLETE successor to Wordpress. And PHP really - though I do think taking care of Wordpress would entirely deal with the PHP problem. What do I mean? All the modern table stakes stuff: * API first * fast bits in Rust (or Zig whatever IDK) * WASM * modern security architecture * batteries included - it is extremely dumb to have to add a plugin for calendars/dates/events and have about 100+ options for those. * designed to be deployed into modern clouds.. but also self-hostable on a single server, or colocated by small (cheap!) providers - ie: addressing ALL of the user base of Wordpress * one-click migration from Wordpress. Wordpress does this "with itself" to allow admins to move from one provider to another. Without this feature, might as well not bother There is a business opportunity here I believe, though I'm not proposing a business model per se. A lot of people, myself included pay for Wordpress hosting while also hating it and being ready to leap at an alternative - even if it cost more.
dang 7mo ago
"Don't be snarky." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[flagged]

by bombcar 7mo ago

[flagged]

make_it_sure 7mo ago

[flagged]

spongebobstoes 7mo ago

how long should it take to gain your confidence? how did you arrive at your number? the state of the art of software engineering is to use AI. it's just reality

hexo 7mo ago
how long? 10 years

Bnjoroge 7mo ago

There's a big difference between the two. If you still think agent-guided development doesnt work well, you need to update your priors

marsven_422 7mo ago
[dead]
Diti 7mo ago
The slow enshittification of every product touched by LLMs these last few years (ESPECIALLY by Microsoft, who goes all-in) kind of “disproves” your point. Reliable agent-coded development only seems to work for small codebases. (And it’s amazing in Ruby for some reasons.)

andoando 7mo ago

Agent coded != vibe coded. I don't write code manually anymore, but Im still getting the exact code output that I want.

hombre_fatal 7mo ago
It's a tough pill for some HNers to swallow, but with a good process, you can vibe-code really good software, and software far more tested, edge-cased, and thoughtful than you would have come up with, especially for software that isn't that one hobby passion project that you love thinking about.
- ehutch79 7mo ago
  vibe coding implies a complete lack of process. The definition is basically YOLO.... https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383
  - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
    My process is just getting claude code to generate a plan file and then rinsing it through codex until it has no more advice left. I'd consider it vibe-coding if you never read the code/plan. For example, you could package this up in a bash alias `vibecode "my prompt"` instead of `claude -p "my prompt"` and it surely is still vibe-coding so long as you remain arms length from the plan/code itself.
- thejazzman 7mo ago
  Shhhhh stop telling them! We don’t need more competition :)
- hatmanstack 7mo ago
  This, but I think everybody that's awake knows this. I still not a fan of this project regardless, it's polishing a turd.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
- andoando 7mo ago
  I mean to be fair, if you are using agents more than likely you are not thinking about aspects of the code as deeply as you would have before. If you write things yourself you spend far more time thinking about every little decision that you're making. Even for tests, I always thought the real valuable part of it was that it forced you to think about all the different cases, and that just having bunch of green checkboxes if anything was luring developers into a false sense of security

teekert 7mo ago

I started calling it LLM assisted coding. If you know what you’re doing but use LLMs to do tedious stuff and educate yourself on the unfamiliar bits you can move quite fast. The term vibe coding does not do that process justice imho.

throwaway613746 7mo ago
[dead]
Dylan16807 7mo ago
> The term vibe coding does not do that process justice imho. Well that's because actual vibe coding is a completely separate thing from "LLM assisted coding, know what you’re doing but use LLMs to do tedious stuff". I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "started calling it", but vibe coding doesn't need a new name, it needs people to be clear about what they mean.
- teekert 7mo ago
  I think the jury is still out on this one, meaning people have different meanings when using the term "vibe coding". OP says "vibe-coded months long project", imho that is not vibe coding? I'd say it's vibe coding if op does not know the programming language and just let the LLM write everything. This does not sound like it.
_puk 7mo ago
Vybrid coding :)
- teekert 7mo ago
  Well, it's a spectrum indeed, as everything is. As soon as we drawn lines the discussion start on where to draw them exactly. So it's, left to right: One shotting --- vibe coding --- vybrid coding --- stack overflow assisted programming --- programming Do we need any extra dimensions perhaps? ;)

AbraKdabra 7mo ago

This crap thinking has to stop, not everything is "hey agent do this" then sit, wait and publish as is. Also this is a Cloudflare official software, do you REALLY think this is 100% vibe coded without human intervention? Come on...

well_ackshually 7mo ago
Considering Cloudflare shat out slop in the form of a "complete rewrite of NextJS in one weekend" and proudly put out a blog post (https://blog.cloudflare.com/vinext/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/vinext/) despite how absolutely dogshit it is: yeah.
eis 7mo ago
After https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46781516 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46781516 ? Yes, one can unfortunately put that into the realm of reality.
Dylan16807 7mo ago
While I agree with your first sentence, I haven't been impressed with cloudflare's AI track record. I think my expectations for "cloudflare software on the HN front page that was significantly AI coded" are lower than "random guy's software on the HN front page that was significantly AI coded".

QuantumGood 7mo ago

What are some other candidates in the "most meaningless new term" awards category? "Vibe coding" seems like the best in a generation. Even with a lot of clarifying qualifications, it often still seems fundamentally meaningless / open to interpretation / triggers commenters based on their priors.

sillywabbit 7mo ago
Using the word priors in the way you (and others) do.

penglish1 7mo ago

Exactly. It might be fine. It might even be great! But no matter how much code, including tests that AI can generate there was only one human thinking about those prompts, for a few months. Any defects in that single human's thought process for overall architecture, security architecture, test architecture and coverage were not reviewed by any other human who might think differently and catch things that were missed. Ideally they were all at least reviewed by AI, but how differently operate from itself? It isn't particularly good at detecting its own errors without a human telling it to, which means the human needs to detect it in the first place. Perhaps my most important point here is simply everyone here on HN is aware of all of these things, and as excited as some of us are about AI coded endeavors, the top response here will likely be the top response for many years - how do I know it isn't garbage? AI might be able to generate code fast, but informed users will definitely develop trust in it on a more human time scale. I think the core idea of addressing a core architecture security defect in Wordpress has a legs. I'd make the case that the security architecture demonstrated here is table stakes for new software projects in 2026 when it clearly wasn't really conceivable in 2003. Though I'd also argue that many of the top Wordpress plugins should be shipped as "batteries included" in any successor, spiritual or otherwise - it would remain important to be extensible beyond those, securely. A spiritual successor to Wordpress designed to run modern cloud infrastructure is a neat thing no doubt. But after handling a bunch of horrible Wordpress and PHP stuff in my life lately, I'm tacking a bit of begging onto my hopefully useful response. Someone, anyone, AI coded or not, please work on a COMPLETE successor to Wordpress. And PHP really - though I do think taking care of Wordpress would entirely deal with the PHP problem. What do I mean? All the modern table stakes stuff: * API first * fast bits in Rust (or Zig whatever IDK) * WASM * modern security architecture * batteries included - it is extremely dumb to have to add a plugin for calendars/dates/events and have about 100+ options for those. * designed to be deployed into modern clouds.. but also self-hostable on a single server, or colocated by small (cheap!) providers - ie: addressing ALL of the user base of Wordpress * one-click migration from Wordpress. Wordpress does this "with itself" to allow admins to move from one provider to another. Without this feature, might as well not bother There is a business opportunity here I believe, though I'm not proposing a business model per se. A lot of people, myself included pay for Wordpress hosting while also hating it and being ready to leap at an alternative - even if it cost more.

dang 7mo ago

"Don't be snarky." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html