3 ms·

There's no real way to sugar-coat losing your job. I think an email is as good as anything. Ensures everyone gets the same message at the same time.

Waterluvian 7mo ago
Whatever you do, do not ever book a 1:1 meeting on a Friday afternoon for Monday morning titled, "The Future."
- thinkingtoilet 7mo ago
  I had to let an employee go because he didn't do any work, took forever to respond to chats (in a remote position), and was always late for meetings. I scheduled the 4pm Friday meeting to let him go. He was 15 minutes late.
  - iwontberude 7mo ago
    Sounds like me on site, ADHD is a bitch, people probably think I don’t anything too.
    - Waterluvian 7mo ago
      I've found that there can be a chasm between "what people think I do" and "what I actually do." But also, there can be a chasm between "what I think I do" and "what I actually do." If the system in which you operate does not attempt to measure this, I think it's worth it for anyone to measure it themselves. We can so easily be overconfident or underconfident. Collect the data and see the kinds of things you've actually been accomplishing over a year. I'll feel like I'm getting nothing done, and then I look at the year's changelogs and realize I'm actually doing just fine for where I want to be.
Quarrelsome 7mo ago
I think its very impolite to not do it face-to-face.
- toast0 7mo ago
  What time is a good time for everyone to show up for a face-to-face layoff meeting for a global company? If you don't do it simultaneously, you're going to hear by rumor rather than by official email, which is IMHO worse. If you do it simultaneously, everyone will know something is up, because there's never simultaneous global meetings.
  - Quarrelsome 7mo ago
    the practicalities of the issue don't stop it from being impolite.
    - HelloMcFly 7mo ago
      There is no perfect or right way to do this. Every approach will have criticism (and not every approach is equal), and different people will appreciate different things about the trade-offs. Is it polite to let people stew for hours, or days, as virtual meetings spread across the company to convey the news in person? It is polite to schedule those meetings all at once with the implications clear - how is that any different than just confirming it an email? Is that better or worse than scheduling such calls with short notice, so that every employee must wonder for days (maybe weeks, depending on staffing and leverage model) whether they still have a job, when that information could have been communicated immediately to allow for immediate preparations? You and I as senior managers might both apply the golden rule in this situation, but that could lead to different decisions.
      - Quarrelsome 7mo ago
        You're just making excuses for them. The approach they chose was rude and cowardly. Even within this cowardice, further cowardice shows, with the email being sent from no specific individual but simply an amorphous "Oracle Leadership". Oracle as a company are cowardly and rude and the practicalities are simply an excuse. There's clearly one "better way" which is to put a name at the end of the email, for perhaps Larry himself to take responsibility as he should. If anything the practicalities show how arbitrary the decision was. Checking the Oracle subreddit we got people with "exceeds expectations" as their average still getting culled. It would appear how they decided upon the cuts reflects on how they have performed them. With all the sophistication of a child in a candy shop trying to buy more candy than their piggy bank can afford and then just dropping the excess on the floor, walking away and trying to forget that it ever happened.
troyvit 7mo ago
I think the headline is not the best headline, but what it meant by "cold" is that there was no advance warning. So like cold-calling somebody, but to fire them, and an email instead.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
  Which I would definitely prefer. A couple of years ago, two weeks before Thanksgiving, management announced there would be layoffs. No timeline on when the cuts would be shared or number impacted. People had to sit around for weeks, wondering if they had a job. Should I buy Xmas presents? Who knows!
  - secstate 7mo ago
    At-will employment is hard. Honestly, if you aren't planning to lose your job tomorrow when your at-will, you're not being honest with yourself. I wish it were different, but outside a union contract or some other fairly well-combed over business contract, you should not assume you will get paid tomorrow.
    - WalterBright 7mo ago
      The best strategy is to save up at least 6 months of runway.
      - bombcar 7mo ago
        This is the real underlying story, and it may be unfair to expect people to "do this on their own" but in the USA, you really need to do this on your own.
  - s3p 7mo ago
    I'd prefer this honestly. Would take 1-2 weeks to start updating my resume and listing out all accomplishments, relevant projects, etc.
  - ahtihn 7mo ago
Gualdrapo 7mo ago
And traceability. In a 1:1 meeting you could fire me and say a gazillion things and I'd forget 99.9% of them.
- SoftTalker 7mo ago
  Or, with emotions flaring, could say something that becomes grounds for a wrongful termination or discrimination claim.

Waterluvian 7mo ago

Whatever you do, do not ever book a 1:1 meeting on a Friday afternoon for Monday morning titled, "The Future."

thinkingtoilet 7mo ago
I had to let an employee go because he didn't do any work, took forever to respond to chats (in a remote position), and was always late for meetings. I scheduled the 4pm Friday meeting to let him go. He was 15 minutes late.
- iwontberude 7mo ago
  Sounds like me on site, ADHD is a bitch, people probably think I don’t anything too.
  - Waterluvian 7mo ago
    I've found that there can be a chasm between "what people think I do" and "what I actually do." But also, there can be a chasm between "what I think I do" and "what I actually do." If the system in which you operate does not attempt to measure this, I think it's worth it for anyone to measure it themselves. We can so easily be overconfident or underconfident. Collect the data and see the kinds of things you've actually been accomplishing over a year. I'll feel like I'm getting nothing done, and then I look at the year's changelogs and realize I'm actually doing just fine for where I want to be.

Quarrelsome 7mo ago

I think its very impolite to not do it face-to-face.

toast0 7mo ago
What time is a good time for everyone to show up for a face-to-face layoff meeting for a global company? If you don't do it simultaneously, you're going to hear by rumor rather than by official email, which is IMHO worse. If you do it simultaneously, everyone will know something is up, because there's never simultaneous global meetings.
- Quarrelsome 7mo ago
  the practicalities of the issue don't stop it from being impolite.
  - HelloMcFly 7mo ago
    There is no perfect or right way to do this. Every approach will have criticism (and not every approach is equal), and different people will appreciate different things about the trade-offs. Is it polite to let people stew for hours, or days, as virtual meetings spread across the company to convey the news in person? It is polite to schedule those meetings all at once with the implications clear - how is that any different than just confirming it an email? Is that better or worse than scheduling such calls with short notice, so that every employee must wonder for days (maybe weeks, depending on staffing and leverage model) whether they still have a job, when that information could have been communicated immediately to allow for immediate preparations? You and I as senior managers might both apply the golden rule in this situation, but that could lead to different decisions.
    - Quarrelsome 7mo ago
      You're just making excuses for them. The approach they chose was rude and cowardly. Even within this cowardice, further cowardice shows, with the email being sent from no specific individual but simply an amorphous "Oracle Leadership". Oracle as a company are cowardly and rude and the practicalities are simply an excuse. There's clearly one "better way" which is to put a name at the end of the email, for perhaps Larry himself to take responsibility as he should. If anything the practicalities show how arbitrary the decision was. Checking the Oracle subreddit we got people with "exceeds expectations" as their average still getting culled. It would appear how they decided upon the cuts reflects on how they have performed them. With all the sophistication of a child in a candy shop trying to buy more candy than their piggy bank can afford and then just dropping the excess on the floor, walking away and trying to forget that it ever happened.

troyvit 7mo ago

I think the headline is not the best headline, but what it meant by "cold" is that there was no advance warning. So like cold-calling somebody, but to fire them, and an email instead.

0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
Which I would definitely prefer. A couple of years ago, two weeks before Thanksgiving, management announced there would be layoffs. No timeline on when the cuts would be shared or number impacted. People had to sit around for weeks, wondering if they had a job. Should I buy Xmas presents? Who knows!
- secstate 7mo ago
  At-will employment is hard. Honestly, if you aren't planning to lose your job tomorrow when your at-will, you're not being honest with yourself. I wish it were different, but outside a union contract or some other fairly well-combed over business contract, you should not assume you will get paid tomorrow.
  - WalterBright 7mo ago
    The best strategy is to save up at least 6 months of runway.
    - bombcar 7mo ago
      This is the real underlying story, and it may be unfair to expect people to "do this on their own" but in the USA, you really need to do this on your own.
- s3p 7mo ago
  I'd prefer this honestly. Would take 1-2 weeks to start updating my resume and listing out all accomplishments, relevant projects, etc.
- ahtihn 7mo ago

Gualdrapo 7mo ago

And traceability. In a 1:1 meeting you could fire me and say a gazillion things and I'd forget 99.9% of them.

SoftTalker 7mo ago
Or, with emotions flaring, could say something that becomes grounds for a wrongful termination or discrimination claim.