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Building 'From Holden', an apparel manufacturer, from the ground up
- wsul 14y agoThank you everyone for the support! We're so stoked to be taking this step. Please feel to drop us any questions any time!
- freerobby 14y agoHuge congrats on the launch, buddy. I'm stoked to see all your hard work pay off. My only gripe is I miss working with you :)
- jerlevine 14y agoSame grip as Robby, but glad you're letting my crazy ideas be involved in it in at least some way! The KickStarter looks great, really pumped to get that first hoodie. Congrats on launching it man!
- wsul 14y agoThanks so much guys! I really appreciate the support! I definitely miss the whole crew / startup ecosystem in Boston, but not the snow! It's been in the 80's here the last week.
- aes256 14y agoI like the "straight from the factory" idea. That said, I have two issues with this: 1. Comparing prices with designer brands such as Lacoste, Ralph Lauren, and Burberry is disingenuous. Consumers are paying for much more than the physical product when they buy goods from those brands. Your real competitors are companies like Hanes, Gildan, Fruit of the Loom, perhaps even Uniqlo and American Apparel. All of these sell basic garments, of reasonable quality, at mostly reasonable prices. 2. There is no such thing as the "perfect" fit. Everyone has a different body shape. In fact, this is one of the reasons retail clothes shopping continues to thrive. People want to try things on, to check the fit, and assess the quality before buying.
- tehayj 14y agoAbsolutely agree. Our brand is now almost two years old, fashion bloggers love it, people pin our products like crazy on Pinterest and so on. But we clearly can not charge prices like established brands do. Opera wanted 10.000 of one of our products as giveaways last summer but of course when we told them for how much we can sell them (we do not produce in factories because we want to keep our quality as high as it is) they didnt go for it. Even when amazing boutique shops ask you, they will want 50 - 60% off if you ever consider selling to them. We do have our products in some shops just because its good promotion not because we really make money with it. I don't want to sound negative but there is a reason why so many brands go cheap. We don't because its basically my wife's full time hobby, we want to sell products we are proud off and we are not dependent on that income. We have about 10 tailors and another 5 leatherworkers working full time by the way, so you get an idea about the size of our operation. All the best with your venture.
- wsul 14y agoGreat points. 1. We think in the categories we compete -- polos, tee shirts, etc, we are comparable (and strive to be better!) in quality and style to Lacoste, RL, James Perse, etc. These companies use great inputs, and the biggest difference in the actual design will be our lack of logo. We think that, in itself, makes a statement, and we hope there are a lot of people like us who appreciate the statement that it makes. We aspire to have higher quality and more consistent style than Uniqlo and American Apparel. Yes -- people are paying premiums to other brands, and some of it, for some people is aspirational. We hope people will pay for quality, and if anything, vote with their dollar for a company that reflects their value. We don't want to charge a premium for that though. Our values will be present in the brand by necessity, because we're going to be detailing all along the way of how we're building our company. 2. To us the biggest problems with fit are intra-brand consistency and intra-style consistency. Many manufacturers have poor quality control and a single shirt in the same size will come off with vastly different measurements. ex: http://reviews.urbanoutfitters.com/5309/15787476/bdg-v-neck-tee-reviews/reviews.htm?reviewID=24255028 http://reviews.urbanoutfitters.com/5309/15787476/bdg-v-neck-... we'll never, ever have this happen. Quality & consistency is of utmost importance to us. We want you to find the size that works best for you (they all have an inch or two leeway) and once you know it, you can order without worry. Even before then, you can, because we offer free returns, paid postage both ways, but we want the experience to be pleasant from day one. We're pioneering a bunch of ways to make the experience as easy as possible including FitPaks, true-to-measure sizes, questionnaires we've devised, accurate photos of real people, and many, many other things -- but we're always open to ideas! We hope you'll follow along and continue to give us candid feedback. We are confident that our success will depend on the support and feedback from people like you!
- tehayj 14y agoI wish you good luck. We are doing something similar, just in a different niche (accessories) and getting the growth you would get by selling wholesale is tough but doable. The "Made in XYZ" does help but only if the product is truly superior. Are you going to sell individual shirts for $29 / each?
- dbul 14y agoThe focus seems to be on pricing, and understandably so considering the nature of people. The implied ethics behind the manufacturing is something I appreciate: I've bought clothing from only countries with better than not labor laws for the past several years. Recently, Burberry has retired their UK-made products in favor of more dubious manufacturing locations; so I've stopped buying Burberry. I hope this becomes a mainstream designer brand. American Apparel had their own target audience. But I just couldn't understand why no one was able to develop aesthetically pleasing clothing made in the US on par with other designers you may find in Saks.
- wsul 14y agodbul, we definitely agree! Almost every brand in our closets is manufactured outside the United States. Companies like Patagonia are leading the way in striving for local manufacturing at scale, but there it is difficult with the traditional retail model, given most companies margins. This is where we think being online-only will really help. Please reach out at william [at] fromholden.com and stay in touch. We want your ideas on what you'd like us to design!
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- tjic 14y ago> I've bought clothing from only countries with better than not labor laws for the past several years. This has the effect of giving employees who already make, say, $100 / day more options as to where to work, while refusing to give those who make $10/day (or $1/day) workers oversees choices like this. I find this effect to be stunningly at odds with most of the stated political goals that usually correlate with this opinion. If redistribution from the $100/day person to the $50/day person is good, why is redistributing employment options from a $10/day person to a $100/day person a good thing?
- dbul 14y agoIn theory, I absolutely agree; however, in reality I disagree unless you can show some data that indicates money being spent this way is more ethical than inhibition. Considering the competition for apparel, ample supply of workers, and what actually goes on in factories, if I have the option I will buy from a place that is more likely to uphold human rights. If you would like a glimpse into my position and haven't already watched the PBS documentary China Blue, I recommend it.
- dhyasama 14y agoHey William, I saw the name "From Holden" and knew right away this must be someone from Holden, Maine. I'm from Brewer and just wanted to say congrats on getting the ball rolling on your new venture. There aren't many people coming out of Central Maine doing this type of thing. Hats off.
- lukethomas 14y agoWoah, a fellow Central Mainer on HN. Unreal!
- dhyasama 14y agoHey Luke. Always good to see another Mainer here. What town are you from?
- lukethomas 14y agoIn Orono at the moment for school, from Orrington originally. Let's connect!
- wsul 14y agoThanks so much!! Holden, Maine it is! Are you in the tech/startup world?
- dhyasama 14y agoYeah, on number three now. Currently at Rallyverse in New York working on second generation social marketing tools. I'll hit you up on LinkedIn so we can stay in touch.
- callmeed 14y agoI'm really bullish on lean manufacturing and vertically integrated startups, and I love that their using CA cotton (my family owns a ranch in the valley that grows cotton) ... but I'm really skeptical of these startups that say "we're going to disrupt [Luxury Designer Brand X] because we can make the same shirt and charge less". Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel. It just seems like a bad way to position yourself, IMO.
- wsul 14y agocallmeed, you should drop me an email at william [at] fromholden.com, we're always looking for new suppliers, and help understanding deeper into the supply chain! What we think is disruptive is the ability to be a trusted go-to site/brand, while not having to support the overhead of retail stores -- inventory, labor, etc are no joke. If we offer a superior product at a lower price, and you buy from us and enjoy it, we think you'll be back over and over -- that means we can keep margins a bit lower, and earn a good revenue stream from each supporter over a long period of time. It is a different model. We think we can continue to communicate new things you'll enjoy, and that is something traditional retail just can't do well. They largely have to wait for you to return, or spend absurd amounts on television and magazine advertising in hopes you'll come back. I do think it is a disruptive model; but some things remain the same -- quality matters, and your brand represents who you are. Further, we think in this day-in-age, who you are is increasingly important. A lot of old school apparel brands are a fabrication of some fantasy land... we can't and won't do that. Social media is our mouth piece and only authenticity carries.
- nvarsj 14y ago> Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of these brands are riding on their brand equity, not the superior quality of their apparel. I think you're wrong in terms of disruption. The people who go by brand equity, in my opinion, are the uninformed consumer. This tends to be the 30 year old+ demographic, people who don't know how to exploit the internet. On the other hand, you have 20 year olds and younger that are extremely informed due to familiarity with internet discussions. The rate of information is incredibly fast in this case, and word of mouth can be a powerful thing. And this group is only getting larger and getting more buying power. In fact, there's been a large rise in direct-to-consumer apparel retailers, and by all accounts they are doing very well. Take a look at Everlane for example.
- antr 14y agoOf all products I only like the polo. The only way to buy one is by spending $65 on an additional v-neck and crew neck - that to me is a flaw: wanting to push/x-sell unwanted product doesn't work now a days.
- lukethomas 14y agoIf you pledge over 29 dollars you receive a polo.
- wsul 14y agoantr, the first pledge level is for a single polo. Granted, it is a bit more expensive than we'll sell via fromholden.com in the future, but we need to cover initial costs; we hope the bring all prices down in the long run. That said, if you'd like some other package put together, I'd be more than happy to accomodate!
- antr 14y agoHas it changed? Didn't see polo before on the $29 pledge. Thanks for pointing it out!
- dustinupdyke 14y agoThere is already a clothing manufacturer "Holden". http://www.holdenouterwear.com/ http://www.holdenouterwear.com/ I immediately assumed this post was related.
- wsul 14y agoHolden is the town we grew up in, in Maine. This company appears to make only snowboard gear. We hope people won't be too confused!
- mthoms 14y agoThey make casual wear as well. See http://www.holdenouterwear.com/store/mens/shop-by-category/teeshirts.html?___sid=u http://www.holdenouterwear.com/store/mens/shop-by-category/t... Expect a Cease and Desist in 3....2....1....
- hornbaker 14y agoYep. Founders, to save yourself potential headaches in the future, do a USPTO trademark search before settling on a name: Word Mark: HOLDEN Goods and Services: IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing, namely, jackets, sweaters, sweatshirts, pants, t-shirts, shirts, vests and outerwear, namely, snow pants, snow jackets, snow suits, insulated and thermal pants, jackets, and shirts; headgear, namely, hats, caps. FIRST USE: 20020000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20020000
- smiler 14y agoOuch, a big miss / oversight as googling "holden clothing" gives holdenoutwear as number 1
- saosebastiao 14y agoReally cool. As a fan of high quality classic fashion, and as a Supply Chain professional, I have been waiting for this. I hope for the best.
- wsul 14y agoThank you! You should reach out, we're always looking for advice on making our supply chain more efficient and would love to hear about your experience.
- bbalfour 14y agoI've had the luxury of seeing the initial prototypes of at From Holden and was impressed. I feel like a fool buying $100+ shirts from places like Rag & Bone, but I do it because of the style + quality + fit. Looking forward to the first official run of From Holden so I don't have to feel like a fool again :)
- breckognize 14y agoIf you decide to do footwear and need help with the sizing (or want to help your customers switch from other brands into yours), we're happy to help! (www.shoefitr.com)
- wsul 14y agoWe will definitely reach out! Thank you.
- shanecleveland 14y agoIt's great to see the interest in made-in-the-USA physical products. I work for a small family-owned US manufacturer. We make neoprene medical and athletic devices, with a focus on custom, and we've been around for 30 years with steady growth. We definitely serve a niche. As some have already pointed out, that is likely where upstart US manufacturers will have success. I believe there are markets for people doing one thing really well and building a reputation in that space.
- TechNewb 14y agoI wonder what the final prices will be, because $30 for a polo is not a 90% reduction in price. Having said that, I would not buy a polo for over 25 dollars, and would try and get a discounted american apparel polo, or even a thrift store. Best of luck to him though, looks like he has almost already met his goal on his kickstarer campaign.
- wsul 14y agoIf you can find a nice polo at a thrift store, go with that! We shop thrift/vintage ourselves, and love re-use vs. new manufacturing. We're going to strive to hit price points that the average American (US!) find reasonable. As we build the company we'll have an increasing ability to do this. Our first run, however, just isn't feasible at the quality we are holding ourselves to (plus Kickstarter and Amazon both take a cut). I think we'll hit $25 for a polo quickly. We hope you'll follow the progress and buy when you're comfortable!
- TechNewb 14y agoI'm all for what you're doing. I think these over priced brands are not worth the cost in quality. I'm happy to pay more for items that I believe are quality, and support good overall ethics. Keep it going.
- TechNewb 14y agoKeep it up man. It's awesome that you're doing, and not just talking, like me. America, and the world, needs more ethical manufacturing. And quality over just brand, is what creates great brands, like apple.
- charliepark 14y agoReally impressed by this answer. And really hoping you guys blow it out of the park. (Congrats on hitting your goal so early.)
- wsul 14y agoThank you so much! So awesome to have so many people genuinely supportive of what we're working on!
- jusben1369 14y agoQuick question. Why move to California? I think everyone knows it's one of the most expensive states in the country. I sort of imagined you moving from CA to somewhere much cheaper with access to more economical space/employees.
- wsul 14y agoAll our partners (dye houses, sewers, pattern makers, mills, etc.) are in/around Los Angeles. I had to learn apparel manufacturing from the ground up, and this isn't an industry where I could just read, Google, and make phone calls. I've spent hundreds and hundreds of hours side-by-side with all our partners making sure our process is as perfect as we can make it. I moved from Boston -- LA is cheaper for me, but that is a pretty small part of our overall costs. We're all tech guys and are used to living on ramen. :)
- jusben1369 14y agoOk. Thanks a lot for the explanation. Figured there was one.
- SeoxyS 14y agoThis is something I've been waiting for for a while. Quality American-made basic clothes at reasonable prices is an incredibly compelling offering. I usually shop from a mix of H&M for basic nondescript items (shirts, polos, socks) and reasonably-priced premium brands for the rest (Calvin Klein, Levi's, etc.). Count me in for The Early Bird! :)
- wsul 14y agoThanks so much for the support! Make sure to stay in the loop and let us know what things you'd like us to work on next!
- jseliger 14y ago>Make sure to stay in the loop and let us know what things you'd like us to work on next! I just went to the original link to sign up for your e-mail list, but . . . there was no signup box. You should really have one in the top right of every post and every page. Wordpress.com does this automagically with a check button (you can see an email signup page here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/ http://jseliger.wordpress.com/), and it's a pretty easy to drive engagement, especially for people from HN.
- wsul 14y agoGreat point, adding it soon. We hope you'll follow us at twitter.com/fromholden and facebook.com/fromholden for now. (we have a really nasty contest launching next week that I think you'll like.)
- jseliger 14y agoThat's a good start, but I don't really use either Twitter or FB. It's possible that I'm coming from a very minority position, but I've seen a bunch of HN posts about how e-mail lists drive more engagement than any other form of electronic contact.
- nostromo 14y agoAmerican Apparel had a real novelty value when they launched. Not only was it made in the US, it was made in LA! It struck a chord with hip urban audiences. So I'm left wondering how From Holden differentiates itself with AA. Pricing, branding, location and fit seem roughly equivalent. Would love to hear from the founders on this. My gut says that it may have been better to stay in Boston and be (for all I know) the only men's apparel company in Beantown; the East Coast AA. Currently, in my below-average monkey brain, From Holden has been classified as "that other LA clothes company."
- wsul 14y agoHey nostromo, I'm one of the founders, William. We love a lot of what American Apparel has done. We've certainly taken a lot of plays from their book. That said, we think there are a lot of ways we can improve on the model: 1. Price - we think $25 for a tee shirt and $50 for a hoodie is too expensive; at scale we want to be lower on our basics. We won't be supporting retail stores, so this is very feasible. AA can't come down anymore in price, they've had a rough couple years as it is. 2. Quality - we're confident we can make consistently higher quality garments; more consistent in quality and fit, and better fabrics. 3. Style - on items outside their basics, we're not big fans of AA's fit or style. That is personal preference, of course. 4. Focus - we're only focused on men and will keep a very small line. Instead of millions of colors and styles, we're going to focus on delivering things every guy should and can wear. We want to be a safe bet so dudes can trust us. LA and NY are really the only two places you can live if you want to be down the street from where your production happens. This is important if you are a micromanfacturer and want that kind of control for quality.
- malandrew 14y agoMake sure your shirts are able to get as many washes out of them as the AA ones. I've owned a lot of different brands of shirts and one of the ways in which AA has surpassed many other brands is in the number of washes you can get out of a shirt before it looks and feels like it should be replaced. Many cotton shirts end up with a very rough hand after only 5-10 washes. ELS cotton also makes sure that the shirt resists pilling. These days 95% of the time I can be found wearing the AA "Track Shirt" in multiple colors because it's got great color fastness and maintains a smooth hand. I'd say each of my shirts have 20+ washes and don't look much different than the day I bought them.
- mmanfrin 14y agoThis reminds me a lot of the Flint and Tinder kickstarter (locally sourced and manufactured clothes). I'd recommend you (they?) take a look at the issues that arose during F&T's fulfillment.
- wsul 14y agoF&T was a big inspiration for us. We'll definitely reach out for their advice. We've talked to dozens and dozens of other fashion startups in preparing for not only this Kickstarter campaign, but the harder part of production and fulfillment. Our reputation depends on good service -- we won't disappoint.
- MartinCron 14y agoI second that recommendation. Flint and Tinder was the first thing I ever backed on kickstarter, and even though there were some production issues, they managed to pull through with some pretty darn nice underwear. Experience was a big part of it, too. The package came with a beautiful map illustrating where the fabric was grown, processed, and assembled. It also came with some matches, which I don't have an immediate need for, but are cute nonetheless.
- malandrew 14y ago2 issues: (1) What about determining the right size? What if the size I ordered doesn't fit? Are you prepared to to take back the wrong size and cover the shipping costs for an exchange? (2) What about more colors? One of the big advantages of AA is the color selection. What kind of selection can we expect with From Holden?
- wsul 14y ago1. We guarantee absolute satisfaction. We also have a secret incentive that we want you to find the perfect fit so you keep ordering and being happy with us. We'll refund or exchange (and pay all shipping, regardless) for anything, anytime. That said, we've developed what we're calling microsizes as well as fits for other body types -- tall and lean vs. weightlifters, who have been traditionally overlooked in the marketplace. 2. We will expand the colors, and, in fact, will be using our members to help guide us. So shoot us an email and let us know what you want! That said, we'll definitely be more conservative than AA. A lot of the time more choice is not a good thing -- AA has some colors that no guy should wear.
- malandrew 14y agoThe idea of microsizes is great. I often find it difficult to wear v-neck t-shirts from Armani Exchange they are too short on my 6'5" frame. As far as colors are concerned, a deep red, like the red in the basic armani exchange v-necks is essential. Regarding the colors AA offers, I'm not sure I totally agree. It's some of my off-the-beaten path shirts from AA that are most likely to get me compliments.
- acdanger 14y agoI wonder if the founders are aware of this other USA-based clothing manufacturer that shares a very similar name: http://www.holdenouterwear.com/ http://www.holdenouterwear.com/
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- caycep 14y agoThis is similar in concept to Everlane? I am not sure if they are manufacturing domestically, but I think the idea is roughly similar (based on their prior posts here on HN).
- malandrew 14y agoCheck out this Q/A on Quora http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-designer-t-shirts-for-men http://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-designer-t-shirts-for...
- wsul 14y agoGreat Q/A! We're big fans of James Perse and a bunch of the other brands listed. Biggest complaint for JP is that nothing they make is athletic fit and downsizing doesn't work well with length.
- garmentguru 14y agoTRADEMARK VIOLATION Holden limited is a car manufaturer. Are you sure you can share their name and fame with no consequences ? They have a mens apparel line which is merchandised quite close to your concept. Adding a "From" might not be acceptable to Holden Ltd., and you might also be in violation of USPTO rulings. BUSINESS PLAN I have worked with Lauren and Oscar knit product from inception to delivery. There are some serious holes in your business model, if you are planning to sell a comparable product, made in USA, delivered by mail, at $8.00. Your management team has impressive credentials but very little hands on knowledge of the apparel industry. Simply stated, The Devil Fears Prada. 1. The minimum wage in CA is $8.00. The effect of the minimum wage kicks in twice when costing your product, first at the stage of fabric manufacturing (where it is built into the fabric price) and than at the cut and make process of garment. 2. Knit fabrics can be a nightmare at the finishing stage. If not finished correctly you will get : a) Skewing in the garment (when garment is laid flat, side seams move to the front or back). b) Shrinkage from 7% - 14% resulting in pukering problems also. c) Color variations in bulk fabric lots. d) Color fastness issues. e) Variation in feel after wash and hiking of garment (riding up) When working with factories in Asia, if fabrics fail testing protocol we issue a "refinish fabric" and sure as hell they refinish. However, given the minimum wage in USA and the price you intend to market your product, refinish will not be an option, so you leave no margin for error. That is if you are aiming for a fabric comparable to the brands you are trying to compete with. 3. Unfortunately, vanity creates brands and brands have become smart enough to offer basics at low prices. That is where they make their big dollars. Men do like to sport the logos too, and will pay those few extra dollars for it. Also, the money back guarantee on brands you are looking to compete agianst make them attractive. Do you accept returns ? Looking at the Timeline you have posted on KickStarter, your garment gets dyed after construction. The finish will never be uniform in this case, certainly not like the pics you have posted or a Lacoste product; in which case your site should project an Abercombie and Fitch or Urban Outfitters image. Also, since you are planning to sell by the piece, have you accounted for postage ? Warehousing and projection of units are a dangerous territory too. Many established companys have sunk with their inventory. A garment comparable to Lacoste or Burberry, by mail at $8 for a T shirt, with all components and construction made in USA, in the absense of a sweat shop is not possible !! If you can manage it, hats off to you !! Your basic idea is to supply a comparable product at a cheap price. However, you are working with knit fabrics which when finished to meet standards you are aspiring for cost muchos $$$$.
- garmentguru 14y agoHey William, Have you had the time to look into the possibility of Trademark Violation ? Have you had your label registered with the USPTO.gov ?