4 ms·

I met my current wife on OKC in 2010, before online dating became an utter cesspool. I've been out of the dating scene for 16 years now, but based on what I se

I met my current wife on OKC in 2010, before online dating became an utter cesspool. I've been out of the dating scene for 16 years now, but based on what I see on social media, I think online dating sucks today for three reasons. 1. Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. They're not looking for a relationship, they're looking for a hook-up, and they're not honest about their intentions. It doesn't help that people argue over whether Tinder is a dating app or a hook-up app. 2. I'm not sure how to put this without seeming misogynistic, but some women greatly over-value themselves. Or at the very least, they have out-dated ideas of courtship. Some of them expect to be taken out to $50+/plate restaurants on a first date, while many men think women are just trying to score free meals. It's hard to make relationships kick off when they begin so adversarial. 3. Dating sites/apps have a financial incentive for your relationship to fail. They can give you matches they know are bad since it keeps you as a serial dater and on their app. They're in a sticky spot where their most successful customer is one that they will never see another dime from, and there's not really a way around it.

yieldcrv 7mo ago
> misogynistic the definition requires "contempt", but it has been diluted to mean any statement that merely points out of corrosive behavior additionally, many of the statements are actually class based and not inherently gendered, for example, we would call out a man trying to date for free meals too, but since its seen in contexts about women, its stated in reference to that gender, masquerading as contempt and misogyny, but not highlighting what is in the observer's heart and mind whatsoever.
- cjbgkagh 7mo ago
  Countries are starting to criminalize ‘misogyny’ which includes interrupting women during meetings. I think Brazil is in the process of enacting such laws. These are usually being bootstrapped on civil right and hate speech laws.
  - matheusmoreira 7mo ago
    The misogyny law was enacted only a few days ago. It criminalizes "disinformation about women, even if true". You read that right.
yieldcrv 7mo ago
> 1. Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. so are many women, unnecessarily gendered observation you just hear less about guys crashing out over it
mjr00 7mo ago
> Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. They're not looking for a relationship, they're looking for a hook-up, and they're not honest about their intentions. In fairness, this is not at all exclusive to online dating.
- cyanydeez 7mo ago
  Or starting a job; wanting to advance in the office; become an entrepreneur; wanting to go into politics; wanting to go into the clergy; wanting to become president; wanting to visit islands; wanting run casinos; wanting to run beuaty pagents... Hrm...
- dotancohen 7mo ago
  In fairness, this is not at all exclusive to men. My experience with OKCupid was that women must lie to get laid, moreso than men. A man can state "just want sex" on his profile and it is socially neutral. A woman who posts such a thing has social consequences.
Forgeties79 7mo ago
When you say “$50+/plate” are you saying the dinner itself or each dish? Either way, (in the US) that is not considered a particularly expensive meal for an adult taking someone on a date. In 2026 you should expect $100-$200 bill with drinks basically anywhere. Going out to dinner is not cheap. $100 is actually a great deal unless we’re talking chain restaurants. If you don’t want to spend that every first date, then I would suggest not making dinner the first date. Do something more casual first time around. Bar, coffee/walk, whatever.
- Sohcahtoa82 7mo ago
  Fair question. When I think "$50/plate", I'm thinking $50 for just the dinner main course, not including drinks, appetizer, or dessert. > Do something more casual first time around. Bar, coffee/walk, whatever. The problem with that is there are women that will scoff at a man trying to do something casual like coffee, tea, or ice cream for a first date. They want to be wined and dined and treated like a princess right off the bat. They think they're a prize to be won simply by being a woman. Though I truly believe that most women are not like this. However, some are, and their attitude is probably what keeps them perpetually single.
  - alistairSH 7mo ago
    The problem with that is there are women that will scoff at a man trying to do something casual like coffee, tea, or ice cream for a first date. 404 Problems Not Found If the idea of a causal first date appeals to you, but not to the other party, you probably aren't a good match. Swipe left and find somebody else.
    - alex43578 7mo ago
      [dead]
  - Forgeties79 7mo ago
    If somebody gave me shade for a casual first date before we’ve even met in person that’s not someone I’d want to take on a date anyway. Not even saying they’re wrong or unreasonable, just think that if someone is vocally complaining about that maybe we aren’t a good fit. You clearly think it’s poor behavior so why are you worried about striking out with them?
matheusmoreira 7mo ago
[flagged]
stanford_labrat 7mo ago
> They're in a sticky spot where their most successful customer is one that they will never see another dime from, and there's not really a way around it. naive question: why has no one made an app with the reverse incentive structure? i understand that the current business model is much more lucrative...but i feel like with how fed up people are with the inability of modern online dating to provide quality, long-lasting relationships a new platform that optimizes for match quality and longevity would eat all of Match Groups offerings lunches. i guess there just isn't enough money to be made so it's not even worth it?
- true_religion 7mo ago
  The reverse incentive is used by match makers. It works well for people seeking marriage since there is a legal endpoint to be reached that can’t be faked and is meant to be permanent.
- Telaneo 7mo ago
  What insentives can an app maker provde to turn the structure around?
- johnnyanmac 7mo ago
  > why has no one made an app with the reverse incentive structure? 1. Network effects. An app isn't like a new local business where people will naturally wander in. They may already exist but the market's captured everyone on the skinner box services 2. App stores. The deeper you look into the things needed to advertise as a mobile app, the more obvious it becomes. You need milliions up front just to be featured in your critical launch time. If you don't, you fall into #1 and it's hard to recover from the "it's so empty" early impressions. 3. As you said, any success despite #1 and #2 is destined to fail. ad won't make that money up, so the only viable idea is relying on a premium or subscription model. But paid models in the era of "free" mobile apps is a hard sell unless you can guarantee success. And dating is anything but guaranteed. That said other models have been tried to correct the issues with the big apps. Limiting matches, reversing the gender dynamics, based around special interests, etc. The only one I think I saw any kind of success from is one tailored towards rich/famous people meeting other rich/famous people (surprise, surprise).
johnnyanmac 7mo ago
> Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. Honestly, that's fine. The issue was when the "get laid" app suddenly decided to be the "find serious relationship" app. Makes about as much sense as Roblox thinking about a dating app, but I guess the MBA's told them it brings more monies. > but some women greatly over-value themselves. It's overblown, but the high level concept of "women are picky" the inevitable course of nearly all dating aspects. Evolutionary wise, women need to be picky due to their long gestation period, and men aren't as picky because they can copulate with dozens of women over the course of days. Add in a caste system and the pareto principle, and even scenes from millenia ago aren't as different from 2026 Tinder as you'd think. But of course your last point only polarizes this existing natural phenomenon. >Dating sites/apps have a financial incentive for your relationship to fail. This is why we needed to litigate these sites yesterday. But we were too busy fighting amongst ourselves, like serfs warring in the streets while the kings sit in an ivory tower. This is an issue only regulation can fix. The human element shouln't be sold off to capitalism, especially in this time where people are supposedly concerned about falling birth rates.
neonstatic 7mo ago
> Criticizes pathological behavior of some men openly > Puts a disclaimer before criticizing pathological behavior of some women Nothing will improve until we as men stop gatekeeping ourselves from stating facts openly, without apologies. Women can be very shitty, often are, and that has to be said without the need to preface it or soften the blow.
- istjohn 7mo ago
  What exactly will improve if men are more blunt and non-apologetic?
  - neonstatic 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
      That’s a really long way of saying ‘I’m an incel’ but you do you!
      - neonstatic 7mo ago
        I don't need to do myself, because unlike your statement, I am neither a 'cel' nor an 'in-cel'. I understand that my statement reads like some redpill stuff, but I find it to be generally true (unlike a lot of other online dating/gender related stuff)
        hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
        [flagged]
1659447091 7mo ago
> Many men (Not all, but many) are ... not looking for a relationship, ... and they're not honest about their intentions. > Some women ... expect to be taken out to $50+/plate restaurants on a first date, ... women are just trying to score free meals > It's hard to make relationships kick off when they begin so adversarial. I think you're letting a judgmental and expectant point of view toward certain women on the apps cloud over a very real problem of why the apps are not very useful for finding relationships. The basis of which is our expectations of how we want others to be and when they are not, they are the problem (justified or not) -- that then morphs into a cascading sequence of issues, if engaged with, on repeat. That these particular women, who have expectations, at least say so -- up front. Yet comparing that with men are "not honest about their intentions" (expectations). How is a woman looking for an actual relationship suppose to work with dishonesty? Men looking for an actual relationship can steer clear of that impending disaster. I can ignore someone who declares their expectations, which I find off-putting. And if they don't declare it but expect a mindreader and they instead get a coffee, well I'm out a coffee and thankfully they showed who they were early and I move on. Their loss, not mine. On the other hand, if my date was stringing me along and lying about what they wanted until I was deceived enough into handing over what that actually was -- that's a far more consequential loss than a $4 cup of coffee. We should want everyone to clearly state what they want and expect, without the judgements, then everyone (with proper intentions) would benefit.
dzonga 7mo ago
you're right no on the problems (symptoms) but didnt' state the cause. social media i.e especially instagram has caused women / men etc to curate this idea of themselves that doesn't match to reality. hence every activity / date etc has to worth an insta moment. whether you meet initially in person or online - the problem remains - pretense. no one wants to be shit-shovler(working non-glamorous jobs), home-idler anymore or to be seen as bland / boring which 90% of people are.
IAmBroom 7mo ago
You admit you haven't been in the dating scene for almost a generation. You then go on to generalize about supposedly significant portions of both sexes, based on your observations of "social media".

yieldcrv 7mo ago

> misogynistic the definition requires "contempt", but it has been diluted to mean any statement that merely points out of corrosive behavior additionally, many of the statements are actually class based and not inherently gendered, for example, we would call out a man trying to date for free meals too, but since its seen in contexts about women, its stated in reference to that gender, masquerading as contempt and misogyny, but not highlighting what is in the observer's heart and mind whatsoever.

cjbgkagh 7mo ago
Countries are starting to criminalize ‘misogyny’ which includes interrupting women during meetings. I think Brazil is in the process of enacting such laws. These are usually being bootstrapped on civil right and hate speech laws.
- matheusmoreira 7mo ago
  The misogyny law was enacted only a few days ago. It criminalizes "disinformation about women, even if true". You read that right.

yieldcrv 7mo ago

> 1. Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. so are many women, unnecessarily gendered observation you just hear less about guys crashing out over it

mjr00 7mo ago

> Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. They're not looking for a relationship, they're looking for a hook-up, and they're not honest about their intentions. In fairness, this is not at all exclusive to online dating.

cyanydeez 7mo ago
Or starting a job; wanting to advance in the office; become an entrepreneur; wanting to go into politics; wanting to go into the clergy; wanting to become president; wanting to visit islands; wanting run casinos; wanting to run beuaty pagents... Hrm...
dotancohen 7mo ago
In fairness, this is not at all exclusive to men. My experience with OKCupid was that women must lie to get laid, moreso than men. A man can state "just want sex" on his profile and it is socially neutral. A woman who posts such a thing has social consequences.

Forgeties79 7mo ago

When you say “$50+/plate” are you saying the dinner itself or each dish? Either way, (in the US) that is not considered a particularly expensive meal for an adult taking someone on a date. In 2026 you should expect $100-$200 bill with drinks basically anywhere. Going out to dinner is not cheap. $100 is actually a great deal unless we’re talking chain restaurants. If you don’t want to spend that every first date, then I would suggest not making dinner the first date. Do something more casual first time around. Bar, coffee/walk, whatever.

Sohcahtoa82 7mo ago
Fair question. When I think "$50/plate", I'm thinking $50 for just the dinner main course, not including drinks, appetizer, or dessert. > Do something more casual first time around. Bar, coffee/walk, whatever. The problem with that is there are women that will scoff at a man trying to do something casual like coffee, tea, or ice cream for a first date. They want to be wined and dined and treated like a princess right off the bat. They think they're a prize to be won simply by being a woman. Though I truly believe that most women are not like this. However, some are, and their attitude is probably what keeps them perpetually single.
- alistairSH 7mo ago
  The problem with that is there are women that will scoff at a man trying to do something casual like coffee, tea, or ice cream for a first date. 404 Problems Not Found If the idea of a causal first date appeals to you, but not to the other party, you probably aren't a good match. Swipe left and find somebody else.
  - alex43578 7mo ago
    [dead]
- Forgeties79 7mo ago
  If somebody gave me shade for a casual first date before we’ve even met in person that’s not someone I’d want to take on a date anyway. Not even saying they’re wrong or unreasonable, just think that if someone is vocally complaining about that maybe we aren’t a good fit. You clearly think it’s poor behavior so why are you worried about striking out with them?

matheusmoreira 7mo ago

[flagged]

stanford_labrat 7mo ago

> They're in a sticky spot where their most successful customer is one that they will never see another dime from, and there's not really a way around it. naive question: why has no one made an app with the reverse incentive structure? i understand that the current business model is much more lucrative...but i feel like with how fed up people are with the inability of modern online dating to provide quality, long-lasting relationships a new platform that optimizes for match quality and longevity would eat all of Match Groups offerings lunches. i guess there just isn't enough money to be made so it's not even worth it?

true_religion 7mo ago
The reverse incentive is used by match makers. It works well for people seeking marriage since there is a legal endpoint to be reached that can’t be faked and is meant to be permanent.
Telaneo 7mo ago
What insentives can an app maker provde to turn the structure around?
johnnyanmac 7mo ago
> why has no one made an app with the reverse incentive structure? 1. Network effects. An app isn't like a new local business where people will naturally wander in. They may already exist but the market's captured everyone on the skinner box services 2. App stores. The deeper you look into the things needed to advertise as a mobile app, the more obvious it becomes. You need milliions up front just to be featured in your critical launch time. If you don't, you fall into #1 and it's hard to recover from the "it's so empty" early impressions. 3. As you said, any success despite #1 and #2 is destined to fail. ad won't make that money up, so the only viable idea is relying on a premium or subscription model. But paid models in the era of "free" mobile apps is a hard sell unless you can guarantee success. And dating is anything but guaranteed. That said other models have been tried to correct the issues with the big apps. Limiting matches, reversing the gender dynamics, based around special interests, etc. The only one I think I saw any kind of success from is one tailored towards rich/famous people meeting other rich/famous people (surprise, surprise).

johnnyanmac 7mo ago

> Many men (Not all, but many) are there simply because they want to get laid. Honestly, that's fine. The issue was when the "get laid" app suddenly decided to be the "find serious relationship" app. Makes about as much sense as Roblox thinking about a dating app, but I guess the MBA's told them it brings more monies. > but some women greatly over-value themselves. It's overblown, but the high level concept of "women are picky" the inevitable course of nearly all dating aspects. Evolutionary wise, women need to be picky due to their long gestation period, and men aren't as picky because they can copulate with dozens of women over the course of days. Add in a caste system and the pareto principle, and even scenes from millenia ago aren't as different from 2026 Tinder as you'd think. But of course your last point only polarizes this existing natural phenomenon. >Dating sites/apps have a financial incentive for your relationship to fail. This is why we needed to litigate these sites yesterday. But we were too busy fighting amongst ourselves, like serfs warring in the streets while the kings sit in an ivory tower. This is an issue only regulation can fix. The human element shouln't be sold off to capitalism, especially in this time where people are supposedly concerned about falling birth rates.

neonstatic 7mo ago

> Criticizes pathological behavior of some men openly > Puts a disclaimer before criticizing pathological behavior of some women Nothing will improve until we as men stop gatekeeping ourselves from stating facts openly, without apologies. Women can be very shitty, often are, and that has to be said without the need to preface it or soften the blow.

istjohn 7mo ago
What exactly will improve if men are more blunt and non-apologetic?
- neonstatic 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
    That’s a really long way of saying ‘I’m an incel’ but you do you!
    - neonstatic 7mo ago
      I don't need to do myself, because unlike your statement, I am neither a 'cel' nor an 'in-cel'. I understand that my statement reads like some redpill stuff, but I find it to be generally true (unlike a lot of other online dating/gender related stuff)
      - hsbauauvhabzb 7mo ago
        [flagged]

1659447091 7mo ago

> Many men (Not all, but many) are ... not looking for a relationship, ... and they're not honest about their intentions. > Some women ... expect to be taken out to $50+/plate restaurants on a first date, ... women are just trying to score free meals > It's hard to make relationships kick off when they begin so adversarial. I think you're letting a judgmental and expectant point of view toward certain women on the apps cloud over a very real problem of why the apps are not very useful for finding relationships. The basis of which is our expectations of how we want others to be and when they are not, they are the problem (justified or not) -- that then morphs into a cascading sequence of issues, if engaged with, on repeat. That these particular women, who have expectations, at least say so -- up front. Yet comparing that with men are "not honest about their intentions" (expectations). How is a woman looking for an actual relationship suppose to work with dishonesty? Men looking for an actual relationship can steer clear of that impending disaster. I can ignore someone who declares their expectations, which I find off-putting. And if they don't declare it but expect a mindreader and they instead get a coffee, well I'm out a coffee and thankfully they showed who they were early and I move on. Their loss, not mine. On the other hand, if my date was stringing me along and lying about what they wanted until I was deceived enough into handing over what that actually was -- that's a far more consequential loss than a $4 cup of coffee. We should want everyone to clearly state what they want and expect, without the judgements, then everyone (with proper intentions) would benefit.

dzonga 7mo ago

you're right no on the problems (symptoms) but didnt' state the cause. social media i.e especially instagram has caused women / men etc to curate this idea of themselves that doesn't match to reality. hence every activity / date etc has to worth an insta moment. whether you meet initially in person or online - the problem remains - pretense. no one wants to be shit-shovler(working non-glamorous jobs), home-idler anymore or to be seen as bland / boring which 90% of people are.

IAmBroom 7mo ago

You admit you haven't been in the dating scene for almost a generation. You then go on to generalize about supposedly significant portions of both sexes, based on your observations of "social media".