6 ms·

> It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to repair. It's slightly worse, slig

by internet2000 6mo ago

> It seems like the Macbook Neo has a lot of those properties as well for a very inexpensive device that is extremely easy to repair. It's slightly worse, slightly more flex, thicker and heavier vs an Air in spite of having a smaller battery and more empty space. It's all trade offs. If you want repairable, please buy a Framework or Lenovo. Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer.

wvenable 6mo ago
> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. Again, why not? It's not mandating design, just minimal standards for repairability that should be obvious. If Framework and Lenovo can do it and Apple can do it on a $600 laptop, why can't everyone do it?
- leetbulb 6mo ago
  Agreed. > why can't everyone do it What everyone is missing: Because other manufactures do not have to; the profit margins are too good to give a shit, and they allow some pretty fierce competition within the target demographic: <soapbox> Sadly, the general public still just wants the cheapest option to consume their bullshit content, even if it needs to be replaced a year from now after their cat walks on it and causes critical damage. The MacBook Neo is brilliant in that Apple takes a share of this market with a premium and affordable product that is basically just their previous generation phone, with the expensive bits likely sourced from their exchange program or surplus supply. Products that at some point the same people would've loved to have, but couldn't afford. Now repurposed with a larger screen, sporting the envied Apple logo, at an affordable price, and targeting that same demographic as the hot new thing, just one generation later. I have a feeling we'll see this pattern continue, and it's genius. Minimizing waste, maximizing profits, and giving the consumers what they want, while maintaining a gap between low-end and high-end -- people that spend $$$$ still want to feel special, of course. Don't get me wrong, the Neo is great, especially for us hackers, but it is absolutely not meant for us in any way. What is in our favor: it does, at the very least, raise the bar for these other manufactures that product absolute garbage. </soapbox> Someone needs to be a reference as to what is feasible in order for a standard to be established. Apple, Framework, and I guess Lenovo are the ones doing this these days. RIP the others.
free_bip 6mo ago
Oh no, my laptop is 2mm thicker than a different laptop. Won't someone think of the 2mm?
- VogonPoetry 6mo ago
  That 2mm uses at least (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3 more material for the case. (a wall thickness of 1mm)
  - stavros 6mo ago
    I don't understand your math. The 1mm (the wall) was there already, so why is it being counted here? Plus, multiplying by 1 doesn't do anything? Also, the 2mm extra won't be solid plastic (they'll be solid air, since that's why we're adding the extra thickness, for the room. If anything, the extra material for the case would be the perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times the height.
    - Arcuru 6mo ago
      > If anything, the extra material for the case would be the perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times the height That's what they did? Perimeter length = 2*335mm + 2*235mm Wall height diff = 2mm Wall width = 1mm (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3
      - stavros 6mo ago
        Ah, thanks, I think what happened was that the asterisks were turned into italics and confused me. I think the message was edited to clarify.
        VogonPoetry 6mo ago
        The post was fixed about 30 seconds after making it - due to the *s being interpreted as italics. It is a shame there isn't a preview button when composing posts.
lelanthran 6mo ago
> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. ??? What makes this "backseat"? When it comes to consumer products, legislation is often the only answer in most cases. What makes this case different? Why should there be an exception carved out for laptops?
cpt_sobel 6mo ago
> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. But it _could_ save us from Lenovo or Dell or any other company copying Apple's design practices (and the latter largely already has), while, as another poster mentioned, not mandating design per se, but rather just setting minimum standards.
PunchyHamster 6mo ago
> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. You can still legislate parts availability and availability of docs. You can legislate parts pairing or outright ban it There is plenty that can be done, just need competent lawmakers

wvenable 6mo ago

> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. Again, why not? It's not mandating design, just minimal standards for repairability that should be obvious. If Framework and Lenovo can do it and Apple can do it on a $600 laptop, why can't everyone do it?

leetbulb 6mo ago
Agreed. > why can't everyone do it What everyone is missing: Because other manufactures do not have to; the profit margins are too good to give a shit, and they allow some pretty fierce competition within the target demographic: <soapbox> Sadly, the general public still just wants the cheapest option to consume their bullshit content, even if it needs to be replaced a year from now after their cat walks on it and causes critical damage. The MacBook Neo is brilliant in that Apple takes a share of this market with a premium and affordable product that is basically just their previous generation phone, with the expensive bits likely sourced from their exchange program or surplus supply. Products that at some point the same people would've loved to have, but couldn't afford. Now repurposed with a larger screen, sporting the envied Apple logo, at an affordable price, and targeting that same demographic as the hot new thing, just one generation later. I have a feeling we'll see this pattern continue, and it's genius. Minimizing waste, maximizing profits, and giving the consumers what they want, while maintaining a gap between low-end and high-end -- people that spend $$$$ still want to feel special, of course. Don't get me wrong, the Neo is great, especially for us hackers, but it is absolutely not meant for us in any way. What is in our favor: it does, at the very least, raise the bar for these other manufactures that product absolute garbage. </soapbox> Someone needs to be a reference as to what is feasible in order for a standard to be established. Apple, Framework, and I guess Lenovo are the ones doing this these days. RIP the others.

free_bip 6mo ago

Oh no, my laptop is 2mm thicker than a different laptop. Won't someone think of the 2mm?

VogonPoetry 6mo ago
That 2mm uses at least (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3 more material for the case. (a wall thickness of 1mm)
- stavros 6mo ago
  I don't understand your math. The 1mm (the wall) was there already, so why is it being counted here? Plus, multiplying by 1 doesn't do anything? Also, the 2mm extra won't be solid plastic (they'll be solid air, since that's why we're adding the extra thickness, for the room. If anything, the extra material for the case would be the perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times the height.
  - Arcuru 6mo ago
    > If anything, the extra material for the case would be the perimeter length times the perimeter wall width times the height That's what they did? Perimeter length = 2*335mm + 2*235mm Wall height diff = 2mm Wall width = 1mm (2*335 + 2*235) * 2mm * 1mm = 2,280 mm^3
    - stavros 6mo ago
      Ah, thanks, I think what happened was that the asterisks were turned into italics and confused me. I think the message was edited to clarify.
      - VogonPoetry 6mo ago
        The post was fixed about 30 seconds after making it - due to the *s being interpreted as italics. It is a shame there isn't a preview button when composing posts.

lelanthran 6mo ago

> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. ??? What makes this "backseat"? When it comes to consumer products, legislation is often the only answer in most cases. What makes this case different? Why should there be an exception carved out for laptops?

cpt_sobel 6mo ago

> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. But it _could_ save us from Lenovo or Dell or any other company copying Apple's design practices (and the latter largely already has), while, as another poster mentioned, not mandating design per se, but rather just setting minimum standards.

PunchyHamster 6mo ago

> Backseat industrial designing through legislation is not the answer. You can still legislate parts availability and availability of docs. You can legislate parts pairing or outright ban it There is plenty that can be done, just need competent lawmakers