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I think it's likely that the explosion was caused by a US strike. But we don't actually know for sure that that's what happened - the US government has not conf

by shykes 7mo ago

I think it's likely that the explosion was caused by a US strike. But we don't actually know for sure that that's what happened - the US government has not confirmed it. We also don't know anything about casualties - we only have the IRGC statements, and they are not reliable. > Have those investigations been launched? Yes, according to the US government, an investigation is underway. But its starting point is determining what caused the explosion.

YZF 7mo ago
How long does it take to look at the coordinates programmed into the cruise missiles? Or to review existing satellite imagery for the location and other intelligence sources? If this was a school (which seems likely at this point) and if this was a US TLAM that hit it (which also seems likely at this point) then we should expect a lot of casualties when it's hit during school time (which also seems likely). And yes, we shouldn't trust what the IRGC is saying. I think I'm on your side but in this case the correct course of action for the US would have been to quickly own up to the mistake. There is really not a lot of ambiguity here. This doesn't seem to be a case like "shots were fired from the school window" or some sort of dual use with IRGC having offices in the school. If there was a reason for the targeting then presumably we'd have a statement about it already. Mistakes can be made and are always made in war. Leaving this open like this is damaging to the war effort.
basisword 7mo ago
>> the US government has not confirmed it What have they done to deserve your trust? They started a war that they deny is a war. They told us a year ago they set Iran back a decade. Then they tell us 9 months later they're weeks from a nuclear bomb. I wouldn't trust the warmongers to admit they're child killers.
- shykes 7mo ago
  I haven't said anything about trusting them. I am simply correcting statements about what the US has supposedly "admitted". It's one thing to say "I think the US did XYZ". It's quite another to say "It is an objective truth that the US did XYZ, in fact they even admitted it". Transposed to the Guardian, if they want to write "we think the US did XYZ", they should clearly frame it as an opinion piece. Instead they are writing "it is an objective truth that the US did XYZ" - which is false. That is journalistic malpractice.
  - istjohn 7mo ago
    It would be journalistic malpractice to avoid reporting on anything that the government does that the government isn't willing to admit publically to doing. It's possible to ascertain facts, even of the actions of the US government, to a level of certainty sufficient to report them as facts, even when the government disputes the facts.
    - shykes 7mo ago
      Repeating the IRGC claim that "American forces killed between 175 and 180 people, most of them girls between the ages of seven and 12" without attribution or scrutiny, is not "reporting". It's fine to be skeptical of the claims of the US government. But the IRGC is also a government - more specifically a totalitarian government built on lies and aggression. To distrust the former while blindly trusting the latter is inconsistent and foolish.
jLaForest 7mo ago
I saw the video of men pulling children's severed body parts out of the rubble. What caused the explosion? Again there's a video showing an American tomahawk middle hitting the building... Why so much equivocating? It's shameful
- shykes 7mo ago
  Are you familiar with the Al-Ahli hospital incident in Gaza? We've been through this sort of circus before... Those of us who paid attention learned to not rush to conclusions, and never, ever trust social media or the western press to overcome or even understand information warfare.
  - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
    > Are you familiar with the Al-Ahli hospital incident in Gaza? I am not > Those of us who paid attention learned to not rush to conclusions, and never, ever trust social media or the western press to overcome or even understand information warfare. Since you highlight western press can't be trusted to overcome / understand information warfare, would you care to provide some write-ups detailing the viewpoints you hint at, in the context of this Al-Ahli hospital incident?
    - shykes 7mo ago
      I wrote about Al-Ahli in an earlier thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47199047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47199047
  - tovej 7mo ago
    The Al-Ahli hospital, the one that Israel tried to say was a PIJ missile that misfired? The Israeli propaganda was false in that case, and they probably hit the hospital. The PIJ missiles' ballistic trajectory did not match with the hospital, and most or all their fuel had burned [1]. I recommend you read the whole text, it's quite short. But I don't see what you mean here, if the takeaway from Al-Ahli is not to trust the US/Israel when they shift the blame for hitting civilian targets... then applying that lesson here means that we should not trust the US/Israel when they try to shift the blame in this case. The US hit the school. That much is beginning to be obvious. [1] https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital?trk=public_post_comment-text https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...

by shykes 7mo ago

YZF 7mo ago

How long does it take to look at the coordinates programmed into the cruise missiles? Or to review existing satellite imagery for the location and other intelligence sources? If this was a school (which seems likely at this point) and if this was a US TLAM that hit it (which also seems likely at this point) then we should expect a lot of casualties when it's hit during school time (which also seems likely). And yes, we shouldn't trust what the IRGC is saying. I think I'm on your side but in this case the correct course of action for the US would have been to quickly own up to the mistake. There is really not a lot of ambiguity here. This doesn't seem to be a case like "shots were fired from the school window" or some sort of dual use with IRGC having offices in the school. If there was a reason for the targeting then presumably we'd have a statement about it already. Mistakes can be made and are always made in war. Leaving this open like this is damaging to the war effort.

basisword 7mo ago

>> the US government has not confirmed it What have they done to deserve your trust? They started a war that they deny is a war. They told us a year ago they set Iran back a decade. Then they tell us 9 months later they're weeks from a nuclear bomb. I wouldn't trust the warmongers to admit they're child killers.

shykes 7mo ago
I haven't said anything about trusting them. I am simply correcting statements about what the US has supposedly "admitted". It's one thing to say "I think the US did XYZ". It's quite another to say "It is an objective truth that the US did XYZ, in fact they even admitted it". Transposed to the Guardian, if they want to write "we think the US did XYZ", they should clearly frame it as an opinion piece. Instead they are writing "it is an objective truth that the US did XYZ" - which is false. That is journalistic malpractice.
- istjohn 7mo ago
  It would be journalistic malpractice to avoid reporting on anything that the government does that the government isn't willing to admit publically to doing. It's possible to ascertain facts, even of the actions of the US government, to a level of certainty sufficient to report them as facts, even when the government disputes the facts.
  - shykes 7mo ago
    Repeating the IRGC claim that "American forces killed between 175 and 180 people, most of them girls between the ages of seven and 12" without attribution or scrutiny, is not "reporting". It's fine to be skeptical of the claims of the US government. But the IRGC is also a government - more specifically a totalitarian government built on lies and aggression. To distrust the former while blindly trusting the latter is inconsistent and foolish.

jLaForest 7mo ago

I saw the video of men pulling children's severed body parts out of the rubble. What caused the explosion? Again there's a video showing an American tomahawk middle hitting the building... Why so much equivocating? It's shameful

shykes 7mo ago
Are you familiar with the Al-Ahli hospital incident in Gaza? We've been through this sort of circus before... Those of us who paid attention learned to not rush to conclusions, and never, ever trust social media or the western press to overcome or even understand information warfare.
- DoctorOetker 7mo ago
  > Are you familiar with the Al-Ahli hospital incident in Gaza? I am not > Those of us who paid attention learned to not rush to conclusions, and never, ever trust social media or the western press to overcome or even understand information warfare. Since you highlight western press can't be trusted to overcome / understand information warfare, would you care to provide some write-ups detailing the viewpoints you hint at, in the context of this Al-Ahli hospital incident?
  - shykes 7mo ago
    I wrote about Al-Ahli in an earlier thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47199047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47199047
- tovej 7mo ago
  The Al-Ahli hospital, the one that Israel tried to say was a PIJ missile that misfired? The Israeli propaganda was false in that case, and they probably hit the hospital. The PIJ missiles' ballistic trajectory did not match with the hospital, and most or all their fuel had burned [1]. I recommend you read the whole text, it's quite short. But I don't see what you mean here, if the takeaway from Al-Ahli is not to trust the US/Israel when they shift the blame for hitting civilian targets... then applying that lesson here means that we should not trust the US/Israel when they try to shift the blame in this case. The US hit the school. That much is beginning to be obvious. [1] https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disinformation-al-ahli-hospital?trk=public_post_comment-text https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...