4 ms·

Also, more people getting into pirating their content.

GenerWork 7mo ago
I've been out of that scene for a long time, hasn't Netflix implemented a bunch of anti-piracy methods, or are people just recording HDMI/DisplayPort output and saving it?
- GrayShade 7mo ago
  It's easier to torrent stuff than to get 4K in Netflix on Linux.
  - boelboel 7mo ago
    Even the 4K you get can hardly be considered 4K, awful bitrate. Too bad most people are okay with this so it's never gonna change.
    - monkpit 7mo ago
      If people were not okay with it, it still wouldn’t change anything unless there was competition. There’s no incentive.
      - boelboel 7mo ago
        Apple tv is quite a bit better than the other streaming services. If people truly cared they would either watch blu-rays or Apple tv. But few actually care.
  - bonyt 7mo ago
    Can't even get 4K on most streaming services on macOS now... It's not just Linux anymore. Netflix lets you in Safari[1]; Disney+ limits you to 1080p[2]; and Hulu limits you to 720p[3]. [1]: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/55764 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/55764 ("Mac computer with an Apple processor or Apple T2 Security chip"). [2]: https://help.disneyplus.com/article/disneyplus-video-quality https://help.disneyplus.com/article/disneyplus-video-quality ("Please note 4K streaming is not available on computer browsers"). [3]: https://help.hulu.com/article/hulu-video-quality https://help.hulu.com/article/hulu-video-quality ("Hulu.com streams in quality up to 720p").
- lelandbatey 7mo ago
  Reading around a bit, yes to Netflix adding anti-piracy measures, maybe to folks recording HDMI/DisplayPort. Apparently, Netflix is using steganography/content watermarks in their 4k content itself to trace users who are pirating. This is from a totally unsourced Reddit thread[0] but they do reference a real company which claims to do this watermarking[1]. The claim is that in addition to Netflix requiring 4k content to be available only on platforms with Trusted Execution Environments[2], Netflix also encodes each ~10 second "chunk" of the video stream into at least 2 different versions: an Y and a Z version. Then, they serve each customer a unique series of chunks when that customer streams their content, e.g. YYZYZZZYZYYZYZYYZZYZYYZ. Then when content leaks, Netflix can examine each chunk of the leaked content to extract the ID of the user who streamed the content. Apparently, Netflix can encode a lot more than just the userID, they can also encode stuff like the individual device ID, the TEE key ID, etc. I know you might be thinking "I could do something to defeat that" and you're probably right (e.g. take streams from multiple users and intercut them so that the bits of the watermark through time are being constantly shuffled), but I'll also bet that there's many layers of steganography we don't know about, and unless you get them all, you'll not escape scot-free. [0] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/1rqkyjg/with_a_lot_of_people_waiting_for_pirates_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/1rqkyjg/with_a_lot_... [1] - https://irdeto.com/video-entertainment/irdeto-anti-piracy https://irdeto.com/video-entertainment/irdeto-anti-piracy [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment
  - edgyquant 7mo ago
    I can’t lie It’s a pretty neat way to track who’s recording
  - tombert 7mo ago
    Not that I would ever pirate a movie because I'm a good boy, but I remember the Cinavia DRM that affected Blu-ray players thirteen years ago. I'm not 100% sure how it worked, but I guess it could do a similar kind of steganography-style thing to the audio track, where they would embed keys silently and the blu-ray player would check against that. I'm not sure if anyone actually ever managed to defeat it, I think they just stopped implementing it in streaming boxes.
hbn 7mo ago
Pirating is honestly, by-far the least painful experience to watch things. I recently started watching a series, and I figured I'd check if it's on any streaming services I have access to. I found it on Prime Video, but when I clicked into it, it needed some other separate subscription to a service I'd never heard of to watch it. And even then, it had like, seasons 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, and 8 of the 9 total seasons. If there was any chance I'd subscribe to watch it before, I definitely wasn't now. I couldn't even figure out where the remaining seasons are available to be watched legally. It's especially hard to find this information in Canada because searching "X where to watch" just gives you results of where things are available in America, which has completely different licensing deals. So I found a torrent for the complete series and I've been watching it pain-free. Piracy tends to be my default now. It even has the advantage that I can frequently find a Bluray rip rather than a reduced bitrate internet stream. Anything I really like and I want to support the creators, I purchase a physical release, or official merchandise or something.
- stronglikedan 7mo ago
  > Pirating is honestly, by-far the least painful experience to watch things. No it's not. It's just the cheapest. Except for a few outliers like you describe, streaming is an order of magnitude less painful.
  - brailsafe 7mo ago
    Only if you don't know about it, but otherwise it's literally two clicks, not even sign-in required
    - milkytron 7mo ago
      Yup. If my gf is streaming something and an ad appears, I'll trigger the download for it during the first ad break, and then when the second ad breaks, it'll most likely be finished downloading and then we switch to JellyFin. The only use we have for streaming apps is finding what we want to watch.
      - 7mo ago

I've been out of that scene for a long time, hasn't Netflix implemented a bunch of anti-piracy methods, or are people just recording HDMI/DisplayPort output and saving it?

GrayShade 7mo ago
It's easier to torrent stuff than to get 4K in Netflix on Linux.
- boelboel 7mo ago
  Even the 4K you get can hardly be considered 4K, awful bitrate. Too bad most people are okay with this so it's never gonna change.
  - monkpit 7mo ago
    If people were not okay with it, it still wouldn’t change anything unless there was competition. There’s no incentive.
    - boelboel 7mo ago
      Apple tv is quite a bit better than the other streaming services. If people truly cared they would either watch blu-rays or Apple tv. But few actually care.
- bonyt 7mo ago
  Can't even get 4K on most streaming services on macOS now... It's not just Linux anymore. Netflix lets you in Safari[1]; Disney+ limits you to 1080p[2]; and Hulu limits you to 720p[3]. [1]: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/55764 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/55764 ("Mac computer with an Apple processor or Apple T2 Security chip"). [2]: https://help.disneyplus.com/article/disneyplus-video-quality https://help.disneyplus.com/article/disneyplus-video-quality ("Please note 4K streaming is not available on computer browsers"). [3]: https://help.hulu.com/article/hulu-video-quality https://help.hulu.com/article/hulu-video-quality ("Hulu.com streams in quality up to 720p").
lelandbatey 7mo ago
Reading around a bit, yes to Netflix adding anti-piracy measures, maybe to folks recording HDMI/DisplayPort. Apparently, Netflix is using steganography/content watermarks in their 4k content itself to trace users who are pirating. This is from a totally unsourced Reddit thread[0] but they do reference a real company which claims to do this watermarking[1]. The claim is that in addition to Netflix requiring 4k content to be available only on platforms with Trusted Execution Environments[2], Netflix also encodes each ~10 second "chunk" of the video stream into at least 2 different versions: an Y and a Z version. Then, they serve each customer a unique series of chunks when that customer streams their content, e.g. YYZYZZZYZYYZYZYYZZYZYYZ. Then when content leaks, Netflix can examine each chunk of the leaked content to extract the ID of the user who streamed the content. Apparently, Netflix can encode a lot more than just the userID, they can also encode stuff like the individual device ID, the TEE key ID, etc. I know you might be thinking "I could do something to defeat that" and you're probably right (e.g. take streams from multiple users and intercut them so that the bits of the watermark through time are being constantly shuffled), but I'll also bet that there's many layers of steganography we don't know about, and unless you get them all, you'll not escape scot-free. [0] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/1rqkyjg/with_a_lot_of_people_waiting_for_pirates_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/1rqkyjg/with_a_lot_... [1] - https://irdeto.com/video-entertainment/irdeto-anti-piracy https://irdeto.com/video-entertainment/irdeto-anti-piracy [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_execution_environment
- edgyquant 7mo ago
  I can’t lie It’s a pretty neat way to track who’s recording
- tombert 7mo ago
  Not that I would ever pirate a movie because I'm a good boy, but I remember the Cinavia DRM that affected Blu-ray players thirteen years ago. I'm not 100% sure how it worked, but I guess it could do a similar kind of steganography-style thing to the audio track, where they would embed keys silently and the blu-ray player would check against that. I'm not sure if anyone actually ever managed to defeat it, I think they just stopped implementing it in streaming boxes.

hbn 7mo ago

Pirating is honestly, by-far the least painful experience to watch things. I recently started watching a series, and I figured I'd check if it's on any streaming services I have access to. I found it on Prime Video, but when I clicked into it, it needed some other separate subscription to a service I'd never heard of to watch it. And even then, it had like, seasons 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, and 8 of the 9 total seasons. If there was any chance I'd subscribe to watch it before, I definitely wasn't now. I couldn't even figure out where the remaining seasons are available to be watched legally. It's especially hard to find this information in Canada because searching "X where to watch" just gives you results of where things are available in America, which has completely different licensing deals. So I found a torrent for the complete series and I've been watching it pain-free. Piracy tends to be my default now. It even has the advantage that I can frequently find a Bluray rip rather than a reduced bitrate internet stream. Anything I really like and I want to support the creators, I purchase a physical release, or official merchandise or something.

stronglikedan 7mo ago
> Pirating is honestly, by-far the least painful experience to watch things. No it's not. It's just the cheapest. Except for a few outliers like you describe, streaming is an order of magnitude less painful.
- brailsafe 7mo ago
  Only if you don't know about it, but otherwise it's literally two clicks, not even sign-in required
  - milkytron 7mo ago
    Yup. If my gf is streaming something and an ad appears, I'll trigger the download for it during the first ad break, and then when the second ad breaks, it'll most likely be finished downloading and then we switch to JellyFin. The only use we have for streaming apps is finding what we want to watch.
    - 7mo ago