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Exactly, it just got to be fair for everyone. Can't make a woman with 'internal testicles and higher levels of testosterone compare against other women, that wo

Exactly, it just got to be fair for everyone. Can't make a woman with 'internal testicles and higher levels of testosterone compare against other women, that would be like accepting dopping.

crote 7mo ago
And Michael Phelps should be banned for having freakishly long arms - his genetic advantage is basically doping as well, obviously!
- aucisson_masque 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - sevenseacat 7mo ago
    That makes no sense. A decent percentage of women would have higher testosterone levels than some men, due to various hormonal conditions like PCOS.
    - aucisson_masque 7mo ago
      Most testosterone values in PCOS will be ≤150 ng/dL (≤5.2 nmol/L). Men, especially athlete, are around 30 nmol/l. At the very least 6 times over your weird case scenario. I'm sorry but women don't have testicles so they can't naturally produce high levels of testosterone, you won't be able to twist stuffs enough and make scenario weird enough to prove that.
  - thrance 7mo ago
    > Michal Phelps didn't chose to have long arms Oh, and Khelif chose to have a female phenotype so she could compete in the female category in the Olympics? Get real. There are many other women in the same situation. > You will never find a woman that has the same testosterone levels that a man identifying as a woman Uh, yes you will... The entire purpose of taking estrogen is to bring down testosterone to female-level.
    - aucisson_masque 7mo ago
      > Uh, yes you will... The entire purpose of taking estrogen is to bring down testosterone to female-level. Ever heard of testicles ?
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
- stahtops 7mo ago
  If you divided the competitors into “has freakishly long arms” and “doesn’t have freakishly long arms” groups to compete within, and Phelps met the metrics for freakishly long arms, are you saying you think he should be free to compete in either group? If so, there was no point in dividing into groups. That said, I am sure athletes and governing bodies could agree on a better solution than outright banning- for example all it takes is a group that pairs a freakishly long armed swimmer with not, and they compete as pairs. Or an open group- maybe someone without freakishly long arms will find a way to win. Anyway, it’s sports, people will min/max everything you let them, and we know from history they may bend or break rules as well. At the end of the day someone has to make a rule and enforce it, over time it will evolve.

Exactly, it just got to be fair for everyone. Can't make a woman with 'internal testicles and higher levels of testosterone compare against other women, that would be like accepting dopping.

crote 7mo ago

And Michael Phelps should be banned for having freakishly long arms - his genetic advantage is basically doping as well, obviously!

aucisson_masque 7mo ago
[flagged]
- sevenseacat 7mo ago
  That makes no sense. A decent percentage of women would have higher testosterone levels than some men, due to various hormonal conditions like PCOS.
  - aucisson_masque 7mo ago
    Most testosterone values in PCOS will be ≤150 ng/dL (≤5.2 nmol/L). Men, especially athlete, are around 30 nmol/l. At the very least 6 times over your weird case scenario. I'm sorry but women don't have testicles so they can't naturally produce high levels of testosterone, you won't be able to twist stuffs enough and make scenario weird enough to prove that.
- thrance 7mo ago
  > Michal Phelps didn't chose to have long arms Oh, and Khelif chose to have a female phenotype so she could compete in the female category in the Olympics? Get real. There are many other women in the same situation. > You will never find a woman that has the same testosterone levels that a man identifying as a woman Uh, yes you will... The entire purpose of taking estrogen is to bring down testosterone to female-level.
  - aucisson_masque 7mo ago
    > Uh, yes you will... The entire purpose of taking estrogen is to bring down testosterone to female-level. Ever heard of testicles ?
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
stahtops 7mo ago
If you divided the competitors into “has freakishly long arms” and “doesn’t have freakishly long arms” groups to compete within, and Phelps met the metrics for freakishly long arms, are you saying you think he should be free to compete in either group? If so, there was no point in dividing into groups. That said, I am sure athletes and governing bodies could agree on a better solution than outright banning- for example all it takes is a group that pairs a freakishly long armed swimmer with not, and they compete as pairs. Or an open group- maybe someone without freakishly long arms will find a way to win. Anyway, it’s sports, people will min/max everything you let them, and we know from history they may bend or break rules as well. At the end of the day someone has to make a rule and enforce it, over time it will evolve.