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> The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. We all remember state-sponsored do

> The attention this topic receives is disproportionate considering how rare we are, especially close to the Olympics level. We all remember state-sponsored doping scandals from the 60s where iron curtain nations invested heavily on medical research and experiments on prospective athletes to try to get medals. It's not hard to understand how badly this would turn out to be if the same sort of unscrupulous regime could just abuse this loophole to seek the same benefit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_East_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_East_Germany As far as I see, this issue is only tangentially related to transgender rights.

turtlesdown11 7mo ago
[flagged]
yakshaving_jgt 7mo ago
You don't have to go back that far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia
- lokar 7mo ago
  And china: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_China I don't believe either of them have really stopped.
- crote 7mo ago
  That's cis women using doping. Considering how transphobic Russia is, the chance of them using any kind of "trans loophole" is zero.
  - lstodd 7mo ago
    More like 100% and has probably happened multiple times already.
    - turtlesdown11 7mo ago
      citation for this claim?
juneyyyyyy 7mo ago
If an unscrupulous regime wanted to get medals with that method they'd just give cis women testosterone during puberty. Nothing about the new trans-exclusionary standards would deter that. No XY chromosome no SRY gene. You're left with validating that someone's entire development was done in the absence of testosterone, which would--if even possible--require incredibly invasive and extensive testing.
dmbche 7mo ago
That's a weird take. How bad do you imagine it going?
mmooss 7mo ago
> As far as I see, this issue is only tangentially related to transgender rights. It affects the rights of transgender people, so it is directly related to transgender rights. Also, I don't at all think that it's coincidence that people spreading hate about transgender people are the same ones so concerned about this particular issue? People spreading hate and prejudice always have <reasons>. > We all remember state-sponsored doping scandals from the 60s We all do? People born in the 1950s or earlier might remember, making them at least 65 years old. I've never heard of it from people of any age. In any case, it's hard to connect this 60 year old issue with today's decision.
ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago
> It's not hard to understand how badly this would turn out to be if the same sort of unscrupulous regime could just abuse this loophole to seek the same benefit. Surely this is something that can be addressed if it ever becomes a problem. Surely we don't need to write rules for scenarios that aren't causing issues...
- locknitpicker 7mo ago
  > Surely this is something that can be addressed if it ever becomes a problem. You're advocating to create pressure and incentives to commit this class of abuses, which have already been committed even at an industrial stage for decades, and your strategy is to ignore history and facts until the consequences of your actions catch up to you. And all this in exchange for which tradeoff? Even the fight against doping is far more proactive than what you are advocating.
  - ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago
    Trans athletes at the Olympics are causing disruptions at an industrial scale? There's been exactly one trans woman in the Olympics, Laurel Hubbards, competing for New Zealand. She won zero medals. I'm advocating for "there is zero documented evidence this is a problem, the IOC should use their time and energy solving actual problems like doping."
    - dpd_dpd 7mo ago
      All three medallists in the women's 800m at the 2016 Rio Olympics were male. This was highly controversial, as having three male athletes take gold, silver and bronze in what should have been a celebration of female athletic excellence wasn't exactly a desirable outcome. Although the headline of the linked article focuses on males with a transgender identity, the purpose of the IOC's new policy is to exclude all male physiological advantage from the female category, including cases like the above.
      - ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago

turtlesdown11 7mo ago

[flagged]

yakshaving_jgt 7mo ago

You don't have to go back that far. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_Russia

lokar 7mo ago
And china: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_in_China I don't believe either of them have really stopped.
crote 7mo ago
That's cis women using doping. Considering how transphobic Russia is, the chance of them using any kind of "trans loophole" is zero.
- lstodd 7mo ago
  More like 100% and has probably happened multiple times already.
  - turtlesdown11 7mo ago
    citation for this claim?

juneyyyyyy 7mo ago

If an unscrupulous regime wanted to get medals with that method they'd just give cis women testosterone during puberty. Nothing about the new trans-exclusionary standards would deter that. No XY chromosome no SRY gene. You're left with validating that someone's entire development was done in the absence of testosterone, which would--if even possible--require incredibly invasive and extensive testing.

dmbche 7mo ago

That's a weird take. How bad do you imagine it going?

mmooss 7mo ago

> As far as I see, this issue is only tangentially related to transgender rights. It affects the rights of transgender people, so it is directly related to transgender rights. Also, I don't at all think that it's coincidence that people spreading hate about transgender people are the same ones so concerned about this particular issue? People spreading hate and prejudice always have <reasons>. > We all remember state-sponsored doping scandals from the 60s We all do? People born in the 1950s or earlier might remember, making them at least 65 years old. I've never heard of it from people of any age. In any case, it's hard to connect this 60 year old issue with today's decision.

ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago

> It's not hard to understand how badly this would turn out to be if the same sort of unscrupulous regime could just abuse this loophole to seek the same benefit. Surely this is something that can be addressed if it ever becomes a problem. Surely we don't need to write rules for scenarios that aren't causing issues...

locknitpicker 7mo ago
> Surely this is something that can be addressed if it ever becomes a problem. You're advocating to create pressure and incentives to commit this class of abuses, which have already been committed even at an industrial stage for decades, and your strategy is to ignore history and facts until the consequences of your actions catch up to you. And all this in exchange for which tradeoff? Even the fight against doping is far more proactive than what you are advocating.
- ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago
  Trans athletes at the Olympics are causing disruptions at an industrial scale? There's been exactly one trans woman in the Olympics, Laurel Hubbards, competing for New Zealand. She won zero medals. I'm advocating for "there is zero documented evidence this is a problem, the IOC should use their time and energy solving actual problems like doping."
  - dpd_dpd 7mo ago
    All three medallists in the women's 800m at the 2016 Rio Olympics were male. This was highly controversial, as having three male athletes take gold, silver and bronze in what should have been a celebration of female athletic excellence wasn't exactly a desirable outcome. Although the headline of the linked article focuses on males with a transgender identity, the purpose of the IOC's new policy is to exclude all male physiological advantage from the female category, including cases like the above.
    - ahhhhnoooo 7mo ago