4 ms·

Exactly. It's impossible to have both inclusion and fair play. We have to pick one, and as a parent of daughters who compete at fairly high levels it's more imp

by nradov 7mo ago

Exactly. It's impossible to have both inclusion and fair play. We have to pick one, and as a parent of daughters who compete at fairly high levels it's more important to preserve the integrity of women's sports.

CamperBob2 7mo ago
[flagged]
- lelanthran 7mo ago
  > More important than national security and government integrity, I'm told. Certainly seems that way for a certain subset of voters. They'd rather lose the election than let women compete against females only.
  - jmye 7mo ago
    > They'd rather lose the election than let women compete against females only. Fascinating political analysis. It's weird how a small group of people are deeply driven by identity politics above literally anything else, especially when those people typically aren't even slightly affected (and generally have never watched a single women's event in their life). I sometimes wonder if people like you scream at politicians because of the introduction of the pitch clock in baseball, too? Do you waste this much energy on the rulebooks other sports come up with? Or just like, when you think it's icky sex stuff?
    - huhkerrf 7mo ago
      If you can find me some politicians, I would gladly yell at them that the DH and the pitch clock are unnatural and immoral.
      - jmye 7mo ago
        With you on the DH, but the pitch clock has almost made baseball watchable again.
    - mrguyorama 7mo ago
      But but but it's about fairness In high school sports! You know, that thing where the school next door is twice the size and has ten times the budget but it's totally fair! They win the championship every year because they totally have genetically superior athletes every single year! They are definitely better and there are zero possible systemic issues that could affect such a situation! If high school sports aren't fair, then the world will end! How will we go on if little billy loses to someone he shouldn't! What if he loses to a girl! In fact, we should make the ref blowing a call a capital offense! It's only fair! Christ, it's so stupid. If these people cared about "fairness" for women's sports, they would be legislating more funding and support for them, not attacking random high school age people for the horrific crime of not conforming and wanting to play a low stakes game. The point of high school sports is to get kids active and teach them cooperation and provide exposure to new things. Ensuring that nobody with the "wrong" life can play against Beth is not even in the right universe of goals. Alright alright alright I got it. We can get perfect fairness! Every single child born in america will be taken from their parents and put in a government run home that raises them all identically, given identical food and education and entertainment and enrichment and every single one will be given identical sports training. They will be required to complete identical exercise regimens and will have constant surveillance to ensure they aren't doing anything unapproved at any time. There, now finally our high school sports are safe! Phew, crisis averted.
      - CamperBob2 7mo ago
        Hint: They don't care about fairness in high school sports.
  - UncleMeat 7mo ago
    [flagged]
    - CamperBob2 7mo ago
      [flagged]
n4r9 7mo ago
Is there not an option to have inclusion at grassroots level and fair play as the level of competition gets higher?
- Aurornis 7mo ago
  In my experience competing in different things, that's typical: Local organizations are free to set their own local rules, but once you cross over into events that make you eligible for higher level competition they have to strictly abide by the national level rules. I couldn't use my results from grassroots competitions to qualify for national level events, generally.
- nradov 7mo ago
  Sure, I guess that's an option for youth sports in the prepubescent age groups. As a practical matter most youth sports leagues and schools aren't going to hassle with sex screening tests for little kids. But once puberty hits everything changes. My teenage daughter played travel club volleyball on a pretty good team, and during practice they would occasionally run drills with the boys team. Even at that age the difference in hitting power and vertical was enormous, and those differences only grow larger with age. Men and women are literally playing different games. Beyond just fairness, forcing girls to compete against biological males becomes a safety risk due to concussions from taking a ball to the head.
  - fwip 7mo ago
    You believe that women are genetically more susceptible to concussions than men are?
    - waterhouse 7mo ago
      https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/2024/09/uneven-playing-field-female-athletes-are-more-likely-get-concussions-males https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/2024/09/uneven-playin... “Women tend to have thinner skulls than men, along with smaller neck muscles, which can predispose female athletes to getting a concussion,” says Sarah Menacho, MD, a neurosurgeon and neurocritical care specialist at University of Utah Health. “Data shows that women are also more likely than men to report concussion-related symptoms, and these symptoms can persist for a longer time period prior to recovery than in male athletes.”
ToucanLoucan 7mo ago
[flagged]
- nradov 7mo ago
  This is a matter of principle, fair play, and safety. Whether it's a tiny number or "scores and scores" is irrelevant. If you're looking for specific incidents then start with this site. I can't vouch for it being completely accurate but you can use it as a starting point for further research to educate yourself about the issue. https://www.shewon.org/ https://www.shewon.org/
  - ToucanLoucan 7mo ago
    > This is a matter of principle, fair play, and safety. Whether it's a tiny number or "scores and scores" is irrelevant. What if it's 0? > If you're looking for specific incidents then start with this site. A deeply unbiased source, I'm sure. Anyway I'd love to but all their archive links are the same. Looks like someone wrote a for loop incorrectly. But to be blunt, this is the exact same sort of nonsense as VAERS and deserves exactly the same dismissal: Compiled data assembled from the public with no verification, by people with no credentials, with a clear axe to grind. Edit: Also, a SHIT LOAD of these are for second/third/whatever place, not even for wins. If reality backed the assertions made, transwomen should be DESTROYING women in sports. There actually does have to be a lot of them, frankly, because otherwise it is just a nothingburger. Just a burger with a whole lot of nothing.
    - youarentrightjr 7mo ago
      Cmon guy, you can't ask for a source and then dismiss the one provided without critically examining it. You're complaining that it's using publicly available data? Would you rather private anecdotes? > Also, a SHIT LOAD of these are for second/third/whatever place, not even for wins. Not sure why this is relevant - is being cheated out of second place less of a misdeed than being cheated out of first?
    - youarentrightjr 7mo ago

by nradov 7mo ago

CamperBob2 7mo ago

[flagged]

lelanthran 7mo ago
> More important than national security and government integrity, I'm told. Certainly seems that way for a certain subset of voters. They'd rather lose the election than let women compete against females only.
- jmye 7mo ago
  > They'd rather lose the election than let women compete against females only. Fascinating political analysis. It's weird how a small group of people are deeply driven by identity politics above literally anything else, especially when those people typically aren't even slightly affected (and generally have never watched a single women's event in their life). I sometimes wonder if people like you scream at politicians because of the introduction of the pitch clock in baseball, too? Do you waste this much energy on the rulebooks other sports come up with? Or just like, when you think it's icky sex stuff?
  - huhkerrf 7mo ago
    If you can find me some politicians, I would gladly yell at them that the DH and the pitch clock are unnatural and immoral.
    - jmye 7mo ago
      With you on the DH, but the pitch clock has almost made baseball watchable again.
  - mrguyorama 7mo ago
    But but but it's about fairness In high school sports! You know, that thing where the school next door is twice the size and has ten times the budget but it's totally fair! They win the championship every year because they totally have genetically superior athletes every single year! They are definitely better and there are zero possible systemic issues that could affect such a situation! If high school sports aren't fair, then the world will end! How will we go on if little billy loses to someone he shouldn't! What if he loses to a girl! In fact, we should make the ref blowing a call a capital offense! It's only fair! Christ, it's so stupid. If these people cared about "fairness" for women's sports, they would be legislating more funding and support for them, not attacking random high school age people for the horrific crime of not conforming and wanting to play a low stakes game. The point of high school sports is to get kids active and teach them cooperation and provide exposure to new things. Ensuring that nobody with the "wrong" life can play against Beth is not even in the right universe of goals. Alright alright alright I got it. We can get perfect fairness! Every single child born in america will be taken from their parents and put in a government run home that raises them all identically, given identical food and education and entertainment and enrichment and every single one will be given identical sports training. They will be required to complete identical exercise regimens and will have constant surveillance to ensure they aren't doing anything unapproved at any time. There, now finally our high school sports are safe! Phew, crisis averted.
    - CamperBob2 7mo ago
      Hint: They don't care about fairness in high school sports.
- UncleMeat 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - CamperBob2 7mo ago
    [flagged]

n4r9 7mo ago

Is there not an option to have inclusion at grassroots level and fair play as the level of competition gets higher?

Aurornis 7mo ago
In my experience competing in different things, that's typical: Local organizations are free to set their own local rules, but once you cross over into events that make you eligible for higher level competition they have to strictly abide by the national level rules. I couldn't use my results from grassroots competitions to qualify for national level events, generally.
nradov 7mo ago
Sure, I guess that's an option for youth sports in the prepubescent age groups. As a practical matter most youth sports leagues and schools aren't going to hassle with sex screening tests for little kids. But once puberty hits everything changes. My teenage daughter played travel club volleyball on a pretty good team, and during practice they would occasionally run drills with the boys team. Even at that age the difference in hitting power and vertical was enormous, and those differences only grow larger with age. Men and women are literally playing different games. Beyond just fairness, forcing girls to compete against biological males becomes a safety risk due to concussions from taking a ball to the head.
- fwip 7mo ago
  You believe that women are genetically more susceptible to concussions than men are?
  - waterhouse 7mo ago
    https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/2024/09/uneven-playing-field-female-athletes-are-more-likely-get-concussions-males https://healthcare.utah.edu/healthfeed/2024/09/uneven-playin... “Women tend to have thinner skulls than men, along with smaller neck muscles, which can predispose female athletes to getting a concussion,” says Sarah Menacho, MD, a neurosurgeon and neurocritical care specialist at University of Utah Health. “Data shows that women are also more likely than men to report concussion-related symptoms, and these symptoms can persist for a longer time period prior to recovery than in male athletes.”

ToucanLoucan 7mo ago

[flagged]

nradov 7mo ago
This is a matter of principle, fair play, and safety. Whether it's a tiny number or "scores and scores" is irrelevant. If you're looking for specific incidents then start with this site. I can't vouch for it being completely accurate but you can use it as a starting point for further research to educate yourself about the issue. https://www.shewon.org/ https://www.shewon.org/
- ToucanLoucan 7mo ago
  > This is a matter of principle, fair play, and safety. Whether it's a tiny number or "scores and scores" is irrelevant. What if it's 0? > If you're looking for specific incidents then start with this site. A deeply unbiased source, I'm sure. Anyway I'd love to but all their archive links are the same. Looks like someone wrote a for loop incorrectly. But to be blunt, this is the exact same sort of nonsense as VAERS and deserves exactly the same dismissal: Compiled data assembled from the public with no verification, by people with no credentials, with a clear axe to grind. Edit: Also, a SHIT LOAD of these are for second/third/whatever place, not even for wins. If reality backed the assertions made, transwomen should be DESTROYING women in sports. There actually does have to be a lot of them, frankly, because otherwise it is just a nothingburger. Just a burger with a whole lot of nothing.
  - youarentrightjr 7mo ago
    Cmon guy, you can't ask for a source and then dismiss the one provided without critically examining it. You're complaining that it's using publicly available data? Would you rather private anecdotes? > Also, a SHIT LOAD of these are for second/third/whatever place, not even for wins. Not sure why this is relevant - is being cheated out of second place less of a misdeed than being cheated out of first?
  - youarentrightjr 7mo ago