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Newly purchased Vizio TVs now require Walmart accounts to use smart features
- JoeBOFH 6mo agoAt my last job we bought a lot of Vizio tvs. We used them for conference rooms, hallway displays, etc. They were reasonably priced and had a good feature set needed. They have been on a decline for years and this is a nail in the coffin.
- hypercube33 6mo agoThere are business models that are dumb displays that you bring your own device to do conference stuff on whatever platform you wish. I'm not current with the pricing but they typically have good warranties.
- bombcar 6mo agoThey are insanely priced compared to disposable Vizios - renting a "real" display monitor for a conference would be $1000 or so (including the shipping, setup, return, usually involving large crates and trucks). Buying a similar Vizio would be delivered by free by Walmart for $200, you just ignore the setup prompts, stick HDMI in, and give it to a nice hotel employee when done.
- JoeBOFH 6mo agoThis was a what can we order under X dollar amount from Target kinda thing. We bought 2 TVs a month for several years.
- SunshineTheCat 6mo agoKinda a wild idea I had never really considered, but absolutely a possibility: using a TV as a loss leader to sell ads. Not sure if that's they're intent here, but I could easily see that becoming a thing (if it isn't already). And what better way to collect useful ad data on people than forcing them to create an account and then tracking their usage of the device.
- stronglikedan 6mo ago> using a TV as a loss leader to sell ads That's Amazon's Fire TVs in a nutshell.
- mholm 6mo agoThat's been the standard for a decade. $200 for a 4k 55" TV is not realistic without a secondary profit source
- mikepurvis 6mo agoPart of the reason that computer monitors are considerably more expensive. They're higher density, higher refresh rate panels, but they're also dumb so the sticker price has to cover the whole cost; no "netflix" button on the remote control contributing a few bucks or whatever.
- john_strinlai 6mo agoit is definitely a thing. a 65" 4K OLED tv costs less than 32GB of ram! practically every other electronic has gone up in price like crazy, tvs have gone down.
- prepend 6mo agoHavent all electronics dropped in price? Computers are cheaper. Phones are sort of cheaper. Headphones are cheaper. Game systems cost more.
- john_strinlai 6mo ago>Havent all electronics dropped in price? that does not reflect my reality, for the things i have bought (or considered buying), no. but i dont have hard data to back that up, so maybe i am wrong about the general case and the price increases are more local or specific to some other variable.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- shermantanktop 6mo ago2040: a $30k neural interface becomes available. 2042: a $20 budget neural version hits the market but requires the user to watch a 15s ad every 5 minutes.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- h2zizzle 6mo agoWe already live in Harrison Bergeron's world, for anyone forced to, say, watch the NBC broadcast of the Olympics' opening and closing ceremonies. "Don't go having unsanctioned thoughts about that artistry, or forgetting about our commercial sponsors!"
- abenga 6mo agoI remember the 2010 Olympics were aired on pre-enshittified Youtube (in a few countries). You could click on icons to go to a live stream of different events, zero ads, no cutting to studio announcers (stayed on the fields), zero fuss. It was glorious. I feel like living in a country advertisers don't care about makes your digital life better. For example the NBA league pass is very cheap in my country, all teams. For an amount I'd be glad to pay per month, I can watch all games for all teams on demand, without blackouts. And during game breaks we either watch the stadium feed, an animated NBA logo, or highlights and countdowns of other games.
- plagiarist 6mo agoIf the neural interface can filter other ads, that frequency would be a reduction for many people.
- autoexec 6mo agoFiltering ads outright would never happen. They'd create a market where the device would replace the ads you see or hear with the ads of the highest bidder, and then insert new ads on top of that.
- deleted 6mo ago
- ryandrake 6mo agoFor now, we can vote with our wallets and avoid this crap. But, how long until the entire TV and display industry requires an account to tether you to each company in order to use their products?
- dylan604 6mo agoI do that by never shopping at Walmart. I was bored one weekend, and went to a bunch of stores to compare prices. The Walmart near me did have somethings that were cheaper, but for the most part the prices were average with other stores. So I can honestly say for things I buy, Walmart is not worth it for me and it's not just the principle of not shopping at Walmart but it's a principal issue
- ewoodrich 6mo agoThe Onn TV sticks (Google TV based) are an incredible value (the middle of the line-up $25 version is the best deal currently) for a bloat/ad-free experience if you just install the free Projectivy launcher from the Play Store and uninstall any unused TV apps. I just have Stremio, Jellyfin and VLC installed and remapped the free TV button on the remote to Stremio.
- darknavi 6mo agoIsn't that actually great? Just never create and sign into a Walmart account and now your TV isn't infected.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 6mo agoThis presumes that, now or later, there won't be an on-screen message that can't be dismissed saying "Sign in to a Walmart account to enable all TV features." There's plenty of ways they can interfere with attempts to use the TV in "dumb" mode. Heck it could refuse to show any video at all til you've signed in.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- freedomben 6mo agoYep. I bought a Samsung TV that I never even put online. It pops up with a half-screen display that lasts for 2 minutes every time I turn it on . Never again.
- jvolkman 6mo agoWhat is the half-screen display? On my Samsung S90D (new within the last year or so), I can set it to skip the "home" screen and go directly to the last input on power on. It works well.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 6mo agoA manufacturer can target multiple markets and make different choices for different markets. The Samsung S90D (a 65" 4K model) you bought appears to sell for about $1000. Looking at Best Buy's site, you can also buy a Samsung 65" 4K TV for as little as $180 (model DU6900). Yes, there's other differences. LED vs OLED etc. But at a glance they seem equivalent to a consumer...and one costs 5x more. The $1000 TV is targeting a market that expects more from their purchase and would potentially grate at a persistent sign-in notification. The <$200 TV is targeting a market that wants a big TV and hasn't thought much past that. There's definitely a chance that on some models Samsung would be more aggressive about enabling smart features, because those models are expected to be subsidized by ads.
- 1970-01-01 6mo agoThe best thing to do is just leave them as dumb TVs until a root exploit is available.
- limagnolia 6mo agoSo, just like Google, Amazon, and Roku TV's? (And probably LG and Samsung too?)
- pavel_lishin 6mo agoGoogle and Amazon make smart TVs?
- interloxia 6mo agoTV/streaming devices. Amazon's launched in 2014 and GoogleTV in 2010 according to wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_TV_(2010%E2%80%932014) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_TV_(2010%E2%80%932014)
- toast0 6mo agoNo, but neither do Roku. All three participate to embed their software (and hardware, probably) on smart TVs that other people make.
- 555513 6mo agoRoku makes TV, as well as Amazon. All 3 make streaming devices (Stick, set-top box, etc).
- toast0 6mo agoShow me a listing for a Roku made TV? All the ones I've seen are for like a TCL Roku tv. Same for Amazon, usually the same makers. n/m I do see that Roku sells tvs under its own name now. That's a change from the last time I looked.
- kotaKat 6mo ago(dupe) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47510800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47510800
- Robdel12 6mo agoIs there any kind of “hook up” on wholesale large dumb displays? I know I’m preaching to the choir, but I just want a giant dumb display from my Apple TV. I vaguely remember someone posting a link to tvs restaurants use but I don’t remember exactly what or if it was what I’m looking for. (Sorry, being lazy here)
- 1bpp 6mo agoLook for used 'Digital Signage' or 'Commercial' displays. They usually have dumb firmware and the same panels as retail models.
- close04 6mo agoMost are also larger, heavier, with higher power consumption, and sometimes uncomfortably high minimum brightness. They rarely use the same panels as retail models because they have to support different operating conditions like extreme temperatures and 24/7 operation.
- embedding-shape 6mo agoAnd the worst part, usually way more expensive too, seen some panels where the cost was double because the target market is "ad agencies" or whatever.
- close04 6mo ago> the cost was double because the target market is "ad agencies" or whatever. A TV capable of operating in those conditions has to be more expensive or else it'll need replacing twice as often and cost even more long term. Remember when Tesla used bog standard laptop screens in their dash because they were cheaper than automotive grade, leading to high failure rate?
- xp84 6mo agoThis makes me wonder if my local McDonalds, which has three big screens mounted vertically in the drive-thru, ended up with not the commercial grade ones. They’re cooking in the sun in a hot climate all day, so they fail and turn into flickery messes, and it seems like they’re on a cycle of roughly 3 months newly-replaced & working, 1 year flickering.
- RiverCrochet 6mo agoA lot of people do their grocery shopping at Walmart (even if you don't). This positions Walmart as being able to offer discounts for food and other daily necessities to people right on their TV. People are going to like this-especially the cohort that would buy a cheap TV at Walmart. They're going to really like saving a few dollars on groceries or gas. Not to mention Walmart can now offer perks through the TV to its millions of employees. They're going to like it too. Walmart is one of the most litigated companies ever, and probably has 10+ active lawsuits against it at any given time. So if they're getting into this, they're fairly sure it will work legally now and in the future. The battle against personal-data-collection by default on TVs is probably lost at this point. It's over. Non-smart TVs will probably become specialized, super-expensive corporate-class expenses out of reach of most people before too long. Projectors are capable of creating a big image on a wall like a TV, and while it's not as bright, it comes with much less privacy invasion, and is also portable. That's where I'm likely spending my future TV dollars until those gets caught up in this as well.
- SoftTalker 6mo agoGet an actual projector screen and mount it on your wall, you'll get a much brighter picture than just projecting on a painted wall.
- embedding-shape 6mo agoBrighter picture perhaps, but good luck being able to have anything resembling "actual black", best you'll get is dark gray. Alternative solution that doesn't require worse picture quality, never hook up the TV to the internet. State of the art quality, none of the data collection.
- SoftTalker 6mo agoAgreed, you'd still need to darken the room for the best picture in any projector scenario, as the darkest black you can get is whatever the ambient light level is.
- 6mo ago
- beastman82 6mo agoBuy an Nvidia shield and never look back
- dylan604 6mo agoAnd you connect that to what?
- m4tthumphrey 6mo agoAn airgapped TV I expect.
- dylan604 6mo agoThat's the point though. TVs like from TFA are preventing use when air gapped. As more manufacturers go this route, there will be fewer tvs that will allow that to work
- unethical_ban 6mo agoAre they? I skimmed TFA and what I consider "Smart TV features" are the things the Shield does: Apps, streaming, etc. I see no indication that picture settings or HDMI features are disabled without an account. I have a Samsung TV that is "smart" but I use a Shield and never touch my TV remote unless I need to adjust a picture setting.
- pier25 6mo agoHave they finally fixed the frame rate matching issues?
- burnt-resistor 6mo agoAnd disable the telemetry and ads services.
- SoftTalker 6mo agoJust use an AppleTV, Roku, etc. and connect it to the HDMI port. TV is just a screen. That is how I've used mine for the last 5+ years.
- plagiarist 6mo agoIt won't be "just a screen" for much longer if people continue paying for TVs that do this bullshit.
- boesboes 6mo agoCan you even buy 'just a screen'? We have huge (100"+) screens in the office, they cost A LOT. full of spam, apps, ads, popups. It doesnt even swithc to hdmi or what ever you input automatically, you need to select the screen mode orso. The local electronics chain has 50-100 different TV's. All are 'smart'. I would be ok with classifying this as a crime against humanity. /s But honestly, I've just given up. I don't watch tv or movies or stream anymore, because it's all the same bullshit
- bitwize 6mo agoSceptre used to sell dumb TVs but they seem to be exiting the marketplace. Computer monitors and digital signage may be your best bet. You'll have to save up for 'em but that was true of TV sets back in the day too.
- thesuitonym 6mo agoSceptre still has a bunch of dumb TVs on their site. I used to be all in on them, but I bought one that had the backlight go out after only two years, and their answer was "lol buy a new one"
- SoftTalker 6mo agoI meant, I treat the TV as "just a screen." Set the input to "HDMI-1" or whatever my Roku is connected to, and that's the last thing I touch on the TV remote.
- bob1029 6mo agoMy solution to this problem has been to stop using TVs. The last TV I actually enjoyed more than a PC/Mac display was a monster Panasonic plasma that had some serious practicality issues. I'd use it maybe 2-3 hours per week. None of the other display technologies are that interesting to me. OLED gets close sometimes, but nothing matches the visceral urgency of a plasma panel clocked at 600hz. The noises it would make in bright scenes was crazy. You had to have a powerful sound system to cover up the semiconductor switching. And, that's kind of the entire point for me with a television. Go big or go home. Exhibition. If I just want to consume content without pissing off the neighbors, my MacBook/PC tends to provide a much better experience.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo ago>plasma that had some serious practicality issues I finally had to let my mid2000s plasma go, only because moving it required two people (I can one-person a mattress). Not even OLED can reproduce those backlightless blacks (but my 48" Aorus comes close, when viewing straight-on).
- ge96 6mo agoReminds me of the insta go 360 3s cam I bought recently, have to install a mobile app on your phone to activate it. At least you can uninstall the app after. The hardware is amazing, the software could improve in terms of how it deals with motion blur and surfaces like gravel.
- jonpurdy 6mo agoNow that you mention it, DJI action cameras required the same thing (installing an app to activate the camera). I bought one, discovered this during setup, and promptly returned it and got a GoPro instead.
- Havoc 6mo agoWishful thinking but I wish the EU would legislate this BS away.
- PunchyHamster 6mo agoat this point the TVs should be sold in ad and non-ad supported versions
- OJFord 6mo agoWouldn't be at all surprising for Amazon to do that with Fire TVs, it does with Kindles.
- Ylpertnodi 6mo agoAd version $£€599.00 No ads $£€7.99 Profit.
- ethagnawl 6mo agoThis is a friendly reminder that your local e-waste collection site likely has no shortage of sufficiently dumb TVs available for the taking. (Check local regulations before taking anything without permission.)
- giancarlostoro 6mo agoI never connect my smart TVs to the network, I just plug in my Apple TV and move on. It's frustrating because it takes longer to turn these devices on than it should because of all the additional overhead I don't want or need. I wish someone would make a painless gadget to flash the software with dumber software that loads instantly.
- joering2 6mo agoSame here! none of my home Tvs, most LG and Samsung, have ever seen w Wifi password. Always putting firestick on it and call it a day. At least firestick I can unplug throw away, God only knows what updates TV does that I obviously cannot revert.
- autoexec 6mo ago> Always putting firestick on it and call it a day. Aren't you just letting amazon collect and monetize your viewing habits while allowing them to push ads at you? Avoiding ads and data collection are the reasons I'd want to leave my TV offline in the first place.
- tverbeure 6mo agoOption A: use Amazon Prime Video to watch shows. Share your viewing habits with Walmart/Vizio and Amazon. Option B: use Amazon Prime Video to watch shows. Share your viewing habits with Amazon.
- autoexec 6mo agoUsing a firestick means amazon collects data on what you watch regardless of the platform you view it on. Also ads.
- joering2 6mo agoI have more control over where Amazon shows me ads versus my own TV. Someone will always collect the data, I prefer USA's Amazon does it than Singaporean's Samsung. And I never seen Ads on Firestick, BUT that could be because I'm prime member, which actually works very well in my zip code (there is Amazon distribution Hub about 10 minutes away from my home)
- nla 6mo agoThis is why you never connected a "smart TV" to the internet. If you disagree, do it and then run a Wireshark analysis. The best option I have found, after trying them all is Apple TV. Least about of telemetry, best picture quality, and very secure.
- theturtle 6mo ago[dead]
- beloch 6mo ago"A Walmart spokesperson confirmed to Ars Technica that Walmart accounts will be mandatory on “select new Vizio OS TVs” for owners to complete onboarding and to use smart TV features." ------ Some questions prospective buyers should ask: 1. Is "onboarding" necessary for this "Smart TV" to function as a "dumb screen"? i.e. Would a user need to get a Walmart account just to access video settings? 2. Does it inject ads or phone home to share screen captures from HDMI input? 3. Is not giving it access to WiFi sufficient, or does this thing have alternative ways of getting "updates"?
- everdrive 6mo agoIs this a benefit in disguise? You refuse to create walmart account, and therefore your smart TV is rendered dumb and you can just use it like normal?
- michaelcampbell 6mo agoDumb enough to show a splash screen that might last anywhere from an infuriating time to nigh infinity, I guess.
- -warren 6mo agoThis is why I have protonmail aliases, a burner second phone, and an x1 virtual cc. While I can't stop the enshittification, I can fight back by remaining pseudo anonymous and compartmentalize each service.
- eks391 6mo agoWhat you described is aliasing, not compartmentalization. To effectively compartmentalize requires a different email, phone, and CC for every service. By only having one alias of each, the ad networks that are sharing information about you with partners have no obstacles tying together your habits when they see the same proton email, etc across several vendors, even if you have a different name on your alternate products. After these have been matched enough times, there enough of a profile on you to effectively know who you are, even if it is just probable instead of proven. You mention proton, which allows several emails on a paid account, and there are several competitors offering a similar service with varying success, so this should be no problem to implement. There are also companies that offer anonymous CCs, although they are slowly not working. Privacy and Ironvest are two that used to work but I'm not sure if they still do. I'd be interested if you know of CC companies that still work most of the time at vendors. Regarding phones, there are several sources for this as well, depending on whether you want long term or just one time use numbers, but these likewise have been failing as security measures increase.
- -warren 6mo agoValid points! I do create a separate email (proton has an alias generator and allows unlimited if you pay), credit card, and phone number for each service. Adds about 90 seconds to each sign up, which is a great chance to ask myself if I really need that service . X1 (and I bet there are others) have a button called "free trial" cc that generated a real, valid anonymous (j doe) cc that cannot be used for an actual charge. When I pay for things (I do), I creat a separate virtual card for each service. Side benefit is when I want to cancel, I don't have to find the dark-pattern account cancel button. I cancel the cc and the email. No more subscription; no nagging.
- 6mo ago
- everdrive 6mo agoAt the moment, my strategy is only to own older TVs that have no smart features. Eventually this strategy won't work. When that happens I'll either use a computer monitor or forgo TV altogether.
- havaloc 6mo agoYou sort of have to admire what a clever purchase Vizio was for Walmart.
- prepend 6mo agoThis actually seems better than before when a vizio account was required. At least now its a walmart account. If forced to choose, Id prefer a walmart account. Of course, I would never buy this tv because of the requirement. I just buy dumb tvs and then stick an apple tv in front if the hdmi input.
- autoexec 6mo agoAny TV I buy that forces me to create an account will be returned as defective.
- greybeardgeek 6mo agoRecently I sourced two TVs for my elderly mom, who is never going to stream or use an app. I only looked at TVs which had their manuals online for review. I found two LGs which I could disable the app splash screen, and set to "select last input on power-up", which in her case is a cable box on HDMI-1. Don't know how long choices such as this will be available.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- latchkey 6mo agoI just got a LG G5 and I bought a $499 Mac Mini and a light up bluetooth keyboard with built in track pad. I never see the OS on my TV. Works fantastic.
- burnt-resistor 6mo agoTV smart features are almost always underpowered spyware, so no Wi-Fi for the TV to use it as a dumb display and BYOSTV. If one wanted arguably less/different spyware, there's the Fire TV Stick 4K Max* $35, Apple TV 4K* $149, or Nvidia Shield TV Pro** for $199. * Shows ads ** Shows ads that can be disabled by stopping Google/Android services
- daft_pink 6mo agoUsed to use Roku, but why anyone would use anything other than an AppleTV these days who knows. It’s obvious that the TV manufacturers have no motivation to provide updates and now they are moving to steal your data.
- nazgulsenpai 6mo agoI have a Hisense Roku TV with on a network with a pihole. It can't reach any of it's ad networks so the interface is always the default. The default isn't great, mind you, but it is ad-free.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo agoJust out of curiosity: why add the TV to your network just to block it from the internet? Perhaps you stream content to it locally? I have both a PiHole and SmartTVs — the latter never even get WiFi access (just use them as displays for CCTV & PS4).
- nazgulsenpai 6mo agoIt's just easier and my motivation is blocking ads. We have a PS4 also, and the PS4 shows way more ads than just the neutered Roku.
- ProllyInfamous 6mo agoI also don't connect PS4 — but if you have your DHCP server issue your PiHole's address for DNS, then you can probably block that ad server specifically (just like you could for Roku/Vizio). Wondering when the TV manufacturers begin requiring an internet connection to u se, perhaps even hard-coding DNS-via-https addresses. >It's just easier [to connect TV to WiFi] why? What does it make easier for your setup?
- nazgulsenpai 6mo agoI don't have to do anything extra. I have a pihole on my network blocking ads, I have a Roku TV that has the ability built-in to stream from streaming services. I connect the TV to Wifi and my goal of having a streaming TV without ads littering the interface was achieved.
- josefritzishere 6mo agoFrom a security perspective... never connect your TV directly to the network. But artificially creating a Walmart dependency is total garbage.
- jgerrish 6mo agoIn every Smart TV thread there are dozens or hundreds of comments that say people don't put connect their TV to their wireless. I understand. I've been an EFF supporter for decades, at least when I can afford it. I get it. The problem though is that you sometimes want to screencast a video or song from your phone. Your dirty dirty phone that has been out in the wild collecting malware. Or a guest does. And sure, what's one video? And of course your TV doesn't have the latest updates. It's a fucking perverse incentive that will lead to more regulation of the Internet and IoT when we get malware "leaks" and outbreaks. The civil libertarians have been co-opted with game theory and smart knowledge of the tragedy of the commons in this case by the intelligence services. Instead of just educating citizens and democratic debate. I don't have the political power to sell that idea now, and I know it sounds crazy. Oh well. I wonder what I can't sell next.
- downrightmike 6mo agoNever have I ever wanted to do that" The problem though is that you sometimes want to screencast a video or song from your phone."
- kr1m 6mo agoMy Vizio TV stopped working when I put a pihole on our network
- inquirerGeneral 6mo ago[dead]
- shepherdjerred 6mo agoI wish rtings had a list of best TVs without smarts. I have a $1700 Samsung TV. It's quite nice, but I struggle with changing the HDMI input of all things.
- spl757 6mo agoVizio and every other major brand has been, for years, harvesting data from your smart TV. It's a lot easier to track what you are doing if you have to be logged in. At this point, it can actually be easier to piece parts together instead of paying for a TV with Tizen OS on a tv that may have a camera to watch you sit on the couch with your fingers all orange from the cheeto binge screaming at the TV because that seems to happen a lot now. 1984 has been here for 10 years, now it's just grown big enough to be noticable.
- maieuticagent 6mo agoFor the data harvesting, TVs should be free. Consumer value will revert when your humanoid can project shows on any home surface and retailers will rejoice that freed up flatscreen floorspace.