8 ms·
When do we become adults, really?
- saltyoldman 6mo ago[flagged]
- happymellon 6mo agoVideo games are bad, but what about board games? Are card games also childish? Sports games? Perhaps we should stop playing games altogather and tell everyone at the Olympic Games to stop being children! Bloody chess players, don't they know how much they look like kids!
- saltyoldman 6mo agoyou're falling down the slippery slope, my line is specifically at Video Games.
- placebo 6mo agoI think what the parent comment was hinting at is that there is no absolute separator between a non-adult and an adult. It is a thousand different things and the type of game you enjoy playing is not necessarily a good indicator on its own.
- saltyoldman 6mo agoI've heard many stories of parents that have their toddlers locked up in a room crying while mom is working and dad's home playing CoD. The line is just obvious if you just use your head. Video games in particular has a serious mind-altering affect on men. (It's actually very similar to porn and both have been discussed on the internet at great extent).
- Allybag 6mo agoWhat about playing chess on a computer?
- roysting 6mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- saltyoldman 6mo agoOh yeah, one person is responsible for how an entire generation grew up. You're really looking into it more than necessary. Many people that play video games past their 20s (I mean habit forming level) are totally lost man. You'll see it in everything that they do - ambitions, capabilities and connections. It is unfortunate that the world we have right now is leaving so many people dead inside. I happen to not be one of them. I have a purposeful mission, and I strive to always have one. All the stuff you're saying just a simple definition of "toxic masculinity" and I am not any of that. But being a man is definitely being purposeful in life and living to the fullest. Being a protector and taking care of others. I can't say that about a lot of these people floating out there.
- shinycode 6mo agoSo all the employees of companies that work in this industry are not adults if they play ? You are targeting a specific fringe of people too broadly.
- Al-Khwarizmi 6mo agoSo according to you, playing a shooter game makes one a man-kid but watching an action movie doesn't? And if so, why?
- formerly_proven 6mo agoThere's a fairly solid argument you can make that both of these are man-child indicators. (Essentially, violent power phantasies as escapism).
- Al-Khwarizmi 6mo agoSure, but then the issue would be in the kind of content, not the medium. There are plenty of non-violent video games, and plenty of violent hobbies that aren't video games. I don't see any consistent argument to single out video games.
- freehorse 6mo agoBut "violent power phantasies as escapism" can definitely take some very undisputedly adult themes. I do not see how these are "man-child indicators"?
- hdgvhicv 6mo agoA large number of people spent much of the early 2010s playing angry birds. Did they regress from being adults in the 00s to children in the 10s and then back to adults when they started doomscrolling instead?
- rhdunn 6mo agoSo people who play games for a living are not adults? There are many people who create videos in Minecraft with complex builds, drawing inspiration from things like architecture, nature, etc. And there are many adults who play video games to unwind after work. And it's not just men who play video games. There are a lot of women who play video games including Minecraft and other games, including a huge range of more casual games.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- vasco 6mo agoVideo games are indeed a child like activity, same way as other child like activities it remains fun forever and has many positives. But hackernews in general gets very triggered whenever you say that spending any less than 100% of your free time playing and thinking about games is childish.
- s-y 6mo agoI don’t believe anyone here suggests or hints at the extremes(100%) you are referring to. Mockery for the “i don’t play games so games are childish” argument is fine tho
- hmontazeri 6mo agoWhen we become parents
- shinycode 6mo agoI know many people who have children and are not adults. And someone who never have kids will never be adult ?
- ReptileMan 6mo agoYes. When you don't have kids you can always quit the game/rat race one way or another if it gets too much. With kids - it is different. Kids are the only burden you can't easily shrug off in this life.
- sethammons 6mo agoI assume you grew up in different circles than me. I have seen countless kids shrugged off growing up poor and around drug addiction. I have heard the rich shrug them off to boarding school sometimes.
- shinycode 6mo agoSo you’ve never seen parents quit and neglect their kids ? That does not exists ?
- ReptileMan 6mo agoI have seen of course. But the point is - if you abandon everything in life right now while childless you are not a failure as human being. It is your right to say fuck it all at any moment. If you abandon your kids you are.
- shinycode 6mo agoAgreed, but it proves the point that having kids does not makes you an adult
- firtoz 6mo agoI can't access the article so I will respond to only the title. I use a rough threshold of how much responsibilities they can, or, have to endure, and manage to take care of in a good enough way.
- kakacik 6mo agoBy far the best response here so far. But since we don't have clear definition and my threshold may be vastly different than yours, its anyone's guess.
- hyi96 6mo ago[dead]
- firtoz 6mo agoArchive link: https://archive.is/g3Bok https://archive.is/g3Bok
- Brajeshwar 6mo ago[Personal View] No, we never. We just learn to act in public. btw, https://archive.ph/g3Bok https://archive.ph/g3Bok
- redrove 6mo ago[flagged]
- vswaroop04 6mo agoWhen you grow your wisdom teeth
- AltruisticGapHN 6mo agoI'm 51 now and I feel like I will never be an adult. Looking around I see a lot of broken people, each in their own peculiar ways. Everyone has some coping mechanisms, triggers, and behaviours rooted in childhood. I don't see it in a bad light, I think it is just humanity.
- blueflow 6mo agoChild abuse might be a large driver behind dysfunctionality in adulthood, with disability or early retirement as a consequence. There were some big child neglect cases around the millennium, since them, the topic got more attention from researchers. It used to be that traumatised kids got slapped with a ADHD, autism and/or borderline diagnosis and it got called a day. These are "that's just how you are" style diagnoses. Since 2018 there is CPTSD which finally connects the symptoms to how you got treated as a child. The denial phase is over. Lawmakers are a bit behind, as usual, but at this point the scale of the problems can't be denied anymore. Its too late for you and me, but I'm optimistic for future generations.
- juliendorra 6mo agoADHD and other mental issues are under-diagnosed in dysfunctional or toxic families, and of course exist in very stable caring families, so I would be very curious in which data link the very different symptoms you cite directly to trauma. It feels like going back to the era of shaming mothers for autism.
- blueflow 6mo agoI'm not saying these 3 linked issues are caused by childhood trauma, but that they are diagnosed because of the overlap of symptoms. This is vaguely among experts (for autism and emotional instability): https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11724683 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11724683 This is not ruling out a causal link in the opposite direction, that autism increases vulnerability to traumata. And while researching case reports on child abuse, i couldn't help to notice that many cases do - indeed - start with an autism diagnosis and only escalate later, example: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11886450/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11886450/ While its true that parents don't cause autism... they can surely cause the diagnosis. Extra bad because it delays appropriate treatment.
- antuneza 6mo agoYou become adult when your parents die
- vintermann 6mo agoNot a happy definition, but at least a clear and consistent one.
- sethammons 6mo agoI don't think this holds any water. Plenty of orphan children. Also, my parents are alive and I firmly count myself in the adult camp. Like the article, I think much of what makes you an adult is taking responsibility. For some, the first time that happens may be when their parents die I suppose.
- barrkel 6mo agoBy this metric my uncle, who died in his 70s, never became an adult. My grandmother lived to 93.
- mmooss 6mo agoWhen a relative in the generation before me lost the last person in the generation before them, they surprised me by saying, 'I'm all alone now; it's just me'. There were no parents, aunts/uncles, etc. to advise them, support them, guide them. They faced the wilderness on their own. Another way of looking at it is, when you switch roles with your parents, and you become their caregiver, their source of strength, their guide through the world. When they can no longer help you. One example is the Godfather, when Al Pacino's character starts caring for Marlon Brando's. (Other commenters are taking this idea far too literally, looking for exceptions.)
- nly 6mo agoLabels like "adult", and "successful" etc are all for other peoples benefit rather than our own. It's all a facade. I'd probably measure maturity in terms of how one navigates relationships. When it comes to my partner, being vulnerable, knowing when it's ok to share that I don't feel like an adult, that i'm scared or lack confidence, and when to put on a strong front and say it's all going to be ok, to make her feel safe, is the essence of what I consider to be a "grown ass man". But we're also planning a trip to the Lego House, Denmark together and we don't have kids. So there's that.
- gopher_space 6mo agoThere's something about the responsibility of raising a child that differentiates adults, and I don't think there's an analog to that experience. Personally, the older I get the more `adult` just means you have an empathetic understanding of causality.
- whatgoodisaroad 6mo agoit's a dynamic system where we feel less able to see ourselves as adults each time we gain therapy language to articulate trauma. something is gained with this language, but something is lost too
- rf15 6mo agoI don't know, haven't really seen an adult in a long, long time.
- sgt 6mo agoAre you marooned on that island in Lord of the Flies?
- reverius42 6mo agoAren't we all?
- saidnooneever 6mo agoreminds me a bit of a kine from scroobius pip. something along the lines of 'we're all just bigger kids raising smaller kids'. Some spiritual lines consider humans to be all around 13 or 14 years old, in the mental plane. I dont think most people are very far apart from around that age anyway. Depending ofc on how one gets raised you might get to that maturity more or less quickly in life. (it has nothing to do with skills, eloquance or such things. More to do with how well a person can adapt and respond to stimuli of the nervous system (consciousness), and in my further opinion, how well someone can take and understand the perspective of others. (understanding without judgement).
- rrgok 6mo agoWhen there is no more physical development? A couple of years after sexuality has been stabilized physically. Why is that so clear in other animals but not in humans? Every other social construct is just mental gymnastics. We believe we are special and need to do these gymnastics to keep the importance up.
- sethammons 6mo agoThis is an interesting question. Neoteny is the preservation of juvenile features into adulthood and is a hallmark of domestication. Humans have been undergoing self-domestication so features like rounder faces and softer jaw lines are persisting past sexual maturity. We _know_ the human brain is finishing its development in our early to mid twenties, maybe 10 years post puberty. This extra brain development likely needed for our advanced social and tool needs, and is a unique niche for humans. Our hidden brain development does make a difference. Other primates don't display this.
- dupaslonia123 6mo agoThey say women are old by 30. And men are young till 60
- iammjm 6mo ago"they" clearly must be men, I doubt any woman would say such a thing
- Nevermark 6mo agoNo theoretical life stage partitions are correct. Some are useful. Every five years, my life and context have changed profoundly in ways I could never have predicted. I feel like I have lived many lifetimes. I am not sure how I would measure growing up. I could never stay at one level long enough to get effortlessly good at it. My head is too far into the clouds. The stars are so inviting. So I experience a lot of in-too-deep pressure, trying not to screw things up while working to achieve more than anyone might think is reasonable. With a regular remedial/recovery interval, after I screw things up. If I do grow up in any way, it is the accumulation of resilience and loss of fear that repeatedly digging myself out of my own craters provides. I have internalized that nothing can stop me. Nothing at all. Not even me, and that is saying a lot.
- annie511266728 6mo ago[dead]
- jadbox 6mo agoThis sounds like a quote from Dune. I feel the same.
- taneq 6mo agoWe become adults when we accept ultimate responsibility for everything.
- cyber_kinetist 6mo agoBut we know that nobody really does that - it's just too hard and lonely to accept all responsibility solely to ourselves, even as an adult. That's why we learn to rely on each other sometimes, and I don't think that's a childish or irresponsible act!
- vintermann 6mo agoMaturity is a value judgment. At best. At worst it's simply a power move. There's no objective way to measure your brain juices and say now you're "fully developed" or whatever. People eager to define other people as insufficiently adult adults, should be viewed with the same skepticism as people who want to put their political opponents in an asylum. If you think it's a problem that young adults today play too much video games or whatever, take the ball and not the man. The problem then is in the behavior, not in people's essence. The youth are as bad as every generation complains that they are, no more, no less.
- Vedor 6mo agoThis is really fine article. I agree with its overall sentiment that it's difficult to draw hard lines. Answering the question posed in title - I have no idea. When I was a kid, I thought that person becomes adult in the day of their 18 birthdays. But being 18 years old, I didn't feel so mature. "Maybe when I finish university", I thought. But nope, it didn't feel like being adult. Maybe when I have a stable, "real" job? Nope. Maybe after I leave my parents home? Still not. Maybe after marriage? It's still not that. I suppose I still consider being adult with being serious, busy, and in total control of their lives. And I don't feel that yet, probably I will never will. I feel that this view of adulthood is a bit childish. And most likely I never will feel adult in this specific way. We never are in a total control of our lives. But - do I feel more mature than in my 20'? Of course I do. I have much more responsibilities. My decisions and my actions are much more deliberate than they used to be. But I just feel that I still have a long way to go...
- ReptileMan 6mo agoThere are 3 stages in life - when they care for you, when you care for yourself, when you are forced to care for someone else. So i would say that you become adult when you have kids. Due to reasons this is postponed (or missing) to older and older age.
- axegon_ 6mo agoI never liked the idea of dividing life into segments since you can't really quantify or rather classify the circumstances. Libertarians are praising the idea of equal opportunity and reject the idea of equal outcome. I personally reject both conceptually. No one will ever or can ever have an equal opportunity because our opportunities don't necessarily mean they are all good. In practice, an opportunity is often choosing the lesser evil and in many cases that's a decision that will follow you throughout your life and will have life-long side effects. I've had to take difficult decisions and even though I undeniably took the right ones, I understand that some of those completely derailed some aspects of my life and I've accepted it. Some of those had to happen pretty early on to no fault of my own mind you, but to me, realizing that some things are outside your control and you have to accept reality, even if you hate it, is the day you become an adult. Of course, there are people who face no consequences no matter what they do and they die of old age with the mindset of a 4 year old. Especially if they were raised to be egomaniacal, self-obsessed, spoiled brats, of which there are a lot. This may be an unpopular opinion but everyone needs to face a critical mass of unfortunate events at some part of their life. The earlier it happens the easier it is down the road.
- picsao 6mo ago[dead]
- TheOtherHobbes 6mo agoI've seen some definitions that include a few basic requirements, such as: - A basic level of emotional stability and self-control - Some ability to model consequences accurately - Some ability to negotiate and handle imperfections and challenges in social situations, including relationships and work - Some ability to accurately locate the line between internal and external responsibility, and to act accordingly On that basis it's not at all about age or life stages, but about social and emotional competence. This culture has a superficial understanding of social competence - more or less defined by "socially competent people get what they want." I don't think there's much understanding of emotional competence. The default framing seems to be "You're probably damaged and so is your partner (which is why you're not getting what you want)" and not so much "This is what a functional adult looks like." Work is even worse, with emotional competence being defined almost entirely by its relationship to profit and shareholder value, and not by any intrinsic human standard.
- sethammons 6mo ago> On that basis it's not at all about age or life stages, but about social and emotional competence. I like that. And because humans are (sometimes poor) pattern matchers, we are confusing that for the proxy of age.
- cod1r 6mo ago> social and emotional competence I feel that so much. I'm a first generation vietnamese american (born and raised in america) and it's very disappointing to see my own family lash out (at each other or even strangers) when there is some issue where the answer is unknown. It's also very frustrating when there's such a strong emphasis on the idea that elders always know best and anybody younger cannot question them. Discipline, wisdom, and maturity are probably the main aspects that I think define how "adult" somebody is.
- sethammons 6mo agoI have been a parent since I was 15. Officially married and moved on our own at 19. Graduated from the university at 22. Struggled hard-core until about 30 when my career changed and finally kicked off. My wife became an at home mom for our now three kids. It was my 40s when I realized, "oh, others see me as the adult in the room." I joke and say, "i have always been in my 30s," but I do feel a change recently. Very much facing forest dweller stage already with my oldest getting married. What makes an adult? I think accepting responsibility for your (and often someone else's) condition is a big part of it. I did that at 15. I double downed at 30 when I became our sole provider. But it was my 40s when I started to feel like an adult. I see many "adult" children and many more adults acting like children. The difference seems to be a combination of self-awareness, social awareness, and responsibility taking.
- steve_adams_86 6mo agoThis has been where my thoughts seem to converge in the last few years too. I'm days away from 40 now, a parent for 17 years and a week or so. The things that distinguish the adults from the children in my life tends to be age less and less, and responsibility and accountability more. Your ability to be of service to people in your family, your circle of friends, and your community is such a great measure of how you've become an adult. It isn't a perfect measure, but the best proxy I've found. It's very difficult to spoof it. People who have aged but failed to mature tend to struggle on all or several of these metrics. Their attention, actions, and overall lives are very inwardly oriented in many ways. It isn't to say they're bad people. My rough framework is that as social animals, we need to figure things out before we can fully integrate into our social systems as a fully functioning member. A big step in this process is figuring ourselves out. That's why kids are doing legitimate work when they play, make mistakes, struggle, and so on. They're doing those difficult steps of self discovery. Then, we need to figure out how we fit into the social layers and meshes around us. It's all very complex. It's understandable that we never fully figure it out or optimize, and that some people get hung up on early steps without the right help to be guided through. If the foundations are poor, you're going to struggle. In effect being an adult is just being a well adjusted, integrated member of a community who functions as a generative, supportive, all around positive contributor. That's an over simplification of course. It's a proxy I use to help guide myself, really. What can I do right now that would land me in that rough category? It's helpful to not have to overthink it. At 40 I'd say I've begun becoming an adult but have a lot of work left to do. I think the efforts need to be ongoing because we never stop teaching the young ones, too. Complacency in some contexts can be totally fine, but in a social context I think it can be quite corrosive. We always need to care and strive for something better for each other. It's what we're here for. Also, nice work, genuinely. Parenting at 23 was a shock to me. People thought I was handling it gracefully but it was totally ad-hoc and incredibly difficult at times. And that's with a disproportionately advantageous tech career supporting us. I can't imagine what would have happened at 15. That's admirable. I didn't even make it through school without a kid. I'm regularly amazed by what people can accomplish, including this.
- barrkel 6mo agoThere's a tautology encoded in the question. You become an adult when you behave like the people who most people consider to be adults, behave. What is an adult? Like most words, "adult" encodes a cluster of related behaviors and it's a probabilistic judgment as to whether any individual counts. And it's also shaped by the circumstances of the day. The roles and responsibilities of adulthood change over time, with different social expectations, and those roles may become achievable or less expected to be achievable, depending. It's unsurprising that the article doesn't really come to any conclusion. The question doesn't admit a hard answer. A better question might be, what is the good life of today, and what transitions and when might make sense in our time. Our lives are less structured by tradition than times past. But some biological truths can't be denied. A good life, today, might require one to be countercultural, if our ad-ridden culture over-venerates individualism and youth. I suspect most people only realize these things in retrospect. You don't really know what doors have closed until you find yourself ignored, knocking outside.
- whattheheckheck 6mo agoWhen you realize where you stand in the political hierarchy
- freehorse 6mo agoWhat is "political hierarchy"? Or more like "social hierarchy"?
- lstodd 6mo agoalso fuck them both. for me it's when you realize you do not have to define yourself within a framework of outside expectations.
- whattheheckheck 6mo agoI think i understand that but how do you validate that its not just cope? It seems to me theres literally no escaping the political system you just lie to yourself about where you stand.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- NoMoreNicksLeft 6mo agoAge 12-14, pick a number in between that works for your group's culture and stick with it. Everything else is pseudo-scientific horseshit, and artificially raising the number past this range causes more harm than good.
- pazimzadeh 6mo agowhen one of your parents dies
- readthenotes1 6mo agoI believe an adult is someone who can take care of themselves and those that depend on them without undue imposition on others. Some never make it. It has nothing to do with age. You could argue that a 10-year-old who is pulling hens weight in the family is an adult by my definition since they are not imposing on others in the family.
- booleandilemma 6mo agoAside from the obvious legal definition, it's just a label meant to control you. Don't worry about it too much.
- Tade0 6mo agoA friend of mine once said something that stuck with me: "There's a dearth of people who will do what's necessary without complaining." To me it's all about realising that there's work which needs to be done regularly, that no one else will do for you and also no one will thank you for doing. I've been happier since I realised this myself.
- teekert 6mo agoI think it is this indeed, it’s something decidedly different between me and my kids. I’d add that I myself had a brief period during which I went from thinking “this is hard because I’m dumb” to “this is hard because it is indeed hard”. I felt like I grew up a little in those years as well (~35-ish?). I realized that grown ups and management are all just doing “something”. There is no grander scheme, no deeper understanding behind it. Like the veil was lifted and what was behind it was a bit disappointing, but I also felt that it could not have been any other way. Somehow this realization also made me happier. It’s all something that you could have told me before but I would have never really felt it. All these lessons need to land in fertile soil. It takes some time and experiences for the soil to be ready.
- justonceokay 6mo agoPeople learn this at different rates and for wildly different reasons. When I was out of college working at Amazon, I would be amazed that my colleagues seemed to lack skills like doing the laundry. But I got kicked out of my home at 18 and it was made abundantly clear from the age of 16 onward that this would be the case. Remaining a child is a luxury that I wish everyone can experience for as long as possible
- em-bee 6mo agowe had to help with housework as soon as we were teens. laundry, shopping, cooking, dishes, cleaning the house. i didn't live alone until i was 27, but i had all the skills needed to take care of myself. staying at home was not laziness, but simply economical. i moved out when i got a job in a distant location.
- 6mo ago
- WalterBright 6mo agoYou become an adult when you no longer need support from your parents or the government.
- tovej 6mo agoDo you lose adulthood when you get a pension then? Or when you get sick (in countries with functioning healthcare systems)?
- WalterBright 6mo agoA pension is an earned benefit. Paying for your own health insurance is an adult thing to do.
- tovej 6mo agoYou're still relying on the government for it, or a similar institution. Paying for your own health insurance is insane. I would move out of any country that would force me to do that.
- WalterBright 6mo agoA pension is an earned benefit, part of one's pay package, not a free goodie. Welfare is a free goodie. It's a big difference. Your "free" health care is paid for by you and others. It's so expensive because of that. Healthcare wasn't particularly expensive before the government got involved in it. Modern governments do indeed treat the citizens like children.
- tovej 6mo agoI'm not sure you're aware, but this is a very American view of things. A very skewed one. Quite a childish one too. Bit of irony there. There is a guaranteed pension where I live, it's part of the social contract [1]. And healthcare insurance is much more expensive than public healthcare (both for society and the individual). [1] https://www.etk.fi/en/finnish-pension-system/pensions/national-pension/ https://www.etk.fi/en/finnish-pension-system/pensions/nation... Good luck living in your capitalist free market paradise. I hope your government stops treating your companies like people and your people like cattle.
- treysu 6mo ago[dead]
- gretch 6mo agoI'm ~30 years old and would like to plea to others in my generation: Please take the mantle of adulthood, whether you feel ready or not. If you do not, those who who have no 2nd thoughts about this will run our world into the ground while you sit on the sidelines pretending to still be an innocent child. * corporate billionaires don't think to themselves "am I really an adult?" * religious zealots do not ask these questions * Putin does not wake up and wonder that * Donald trump does not wake up and wonder that * netanyahu does not wake up and wonder that You have power in this world, whether you realize it or not. You can vote and talk to people and ask them to vote. You have money. You are big and strong and can move things in the physical world. With that power also comes responsibility. I'm not asking you to shoulder the entire world on just your own - but do your part.
- reverius42 6mo agoIf Greta Thunberg can do what she did as a literal child then I think the 20- and 30-somethings can step it up a bit.
- ardit33 6mo agoNever.... we are always changing, but looking at car accident rates: There are two periods where there are sharp declines: 19, and sometimes after 26, all the way to 35. https://www.hallandalelaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/IIHS.CHART_.CRASHESBYAGEGROUP.png https://www.hallandalelaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/IIH... If we assume, this is a indicator 'maturity', then the answer should be around 26-35, depending on the individual. It seems that the founding fathers were into something when the made the minimal age for a president at 35. There is a reversal at 75+, but this is due to age related issues. And my experience from the older folks in my life, it seems people start reverting to a 'teenage' like state at 75+.
- umm_sadiya 6mo agoIn islam it's after the age of puberty.
- umm_sadiya 6mo agoIn islam its when a child hits puberty
- cineticdaffodil 6mo agoA adult is a person poisoned by experience. The poison makes you capable to navigate the world easier, but the poison that is knowledge also inhibits and limits you. If you know more about the world or the future, you are less likely to have children. The more knowledge you have the more it limits your ability to move of the rails, do novel scientific discovery, etc. An adult is thus the most information poisoned person in the room, all others are in degrees lesser adult thsn him or her.
- metalman 6mo agothere is no such thing as an "adult" there is indivual agency, which can be found and practiced, and lost and forgoten
- Barrin92 6mo agoAs the article hints at the idea of an "adult" is closely tied to the structured, 'on rails' lifestyle of the industrial age. In rich societies people live on a linear track: vocation/uni, job, marriage etc. When I lived in China I met a (physically) older guy in his 60s at the time who had lived through the cultural revolution, spent 8 years on a farm, went back to school when the universities opened up, started a business, then lost the business after various reforms during the Deng era, and had started work as a programmer in his 50s. He always said "when you're younger than 60 you can just start over" when he heard young adults having existential panics. The guy had restarted his life so often he genuinely seemed like a curious kid, and I think that has a lot to do with just how chaotic and cyclical everything was, he was just used to it. You reinvented yourself every 10-15 years because the world changed. And I think that's an important lesson because the stable environment that convinced people they're finished adults by the time they're 25 is about to be over everywhere. The whole house, golden retriever, 9-5 Truman show thing isn't coming back and having a childish spirit might very well be a big advantage.
- marginalia_nu 6mo agoThat stable environment was always more or less a myth. Some people live the 'on rails' lifestyle, others never find the tracks, some get kicked off after a few years. At its best it's a tool for helping make sense of life and society, but it can also be a destructive myth that leads to resentment and anger in those who end up somewhere else, like they're entitled to this outcome that just wasn't in their cards. Easy to get lost in that darkness and fail to actually make something of life.
- dusted 6mo ago'Childhood's over the moment you know you're gonna die'
- rexpop 6mo ago> Starting after age 20 Claiming that Talmudic adulthood begins simply "after age 20" completely misses the profound philosophical depth of the Jewish tradition! Judaism is fundamentally, as Levinas puts it a "religion of adults". It has nothing to do with biological age, but is instead a state where one rejects the immature desire to endlessly test the waters, keep a safe distance, and leave your options open without ever making a definitive choice. Adulthood, in the Jewish perspective (according to me ;)), is a commitment to receiving the Law directly as an ethical obligation to "the other" without fully understanding what that means. It's a commitment to becoming "hostage" to the other, taking on an infinite, non-negotiable burden to answer for circumstances and suffering you did not even cause. In every generation, the mountain of desolation hangs over us like an asteroid, and in every generation we must make the adult effort to accept the Law and commit unconditionally to the Good. Or something like that. At any rate, it's not simply "starting after age 20."
- rglover 6mo ago"If I don't take care of this, my family will suffer." In other words: when you accept responsibility and become willing to do what's necessary to uphold your responsibilities (to your family, to yourself, and if you wish your community).
- nradov 6mo agoYou become an adult as soon as you accept responsibility for the consequences of your actions and stop blaming others for your mistakes.
- deterministic 6mo agoWhen you take responsibility for your own life, and learn how to control your reactions to your emotions.
- sanex 6mo agoI always felt slightly more adult as I got older but I didn't really feel it until after my daughter was born. Then the weight of real responsibility hits and your perspective changes. It's one of those things that you need to experience to understand. I see a lot of comments saying similar. It's almost like we should have 3 stages instead of child -> adult. Someone else responsible for you -> Responsible for yourself -> Responsible for others. You could argue that's childhood, adolescence, adulthood. I would be inclined to agree with the caveat that adolescence extends to much older than 18 or even 22 years.
- colechristensen 6mo ago>adolescence extends to much older than 18 or even 22 years Adolescence extends to a few years past when you start being treated like an adult, for some it can be extended almost indefinitely. People increasingly want to delay being treated like an adult until after a person has reached the full maturity of an adult not realizing those two things are linked. The transition of this happening too early or too late leads to many mental illnesses where your brain is being wired to expect and react to the world incorrectly and when most of the rewiring is done you're somewhat stuck with what you've got. (If you're pampered and protected for too long you can't handle anything but that the rest of your life, if you face adult challenges too early you develop maladaptive strategies to cope with things you can't handle, etc.) The "25 year old adolescent" is a troubling development.
- sanex 6mo agoAgree, I was looking more for a new definition. I suppose "young adult" is the proper term and I'm defining something that already exists. Adolescent is really still a child.
- colechristensen 6mo ago>Adolescent is really still a child. "Adolescent" is a straight pull from Latin it's literal meaning means being in the process of growing up and maturing. Adolescent is not still a child, adolescent is a child recognized as being an in-progress-to-adulthood. "Adolescent" 25 year olds is the problem, 25 year olds still in the process of becoming adults because of progressive infantilization where parents seeing their children aren't adults are delaying further and further treating their children like they're becoming adults ... is the problem. You're looking for a new definition but you shouldn't be. Maybe we shouldn't send our 13 year olds out into the wilderness for a week with only a knife and a water bottle like many societies have done... but maybe our 26 year olds need to be embarrassed when they can't take care of themselves or be responsible for their own decisions. The process of lengthening childhood into the mid 20s is the problem and new definitions isn't the solution.
- howdyhowdy 6mo agoWhen you start caring for others more than yourself in ways that are personally expensive, then you're an adult. Personally expensive changes as you do.
- decafninja 6mo agoI live closer to my wife’s side of the family than mine, so I’m more familiar with them. Out of the dozen plus adults I regularly interact with there, we both only respect one of the “elders” (as in our parents’ generation) as someone I can look up to as an “adult”. Out of our peers (cousins, siblings, etc.) likewise we only really consider one person as an “adult”. That’s not to say they’re bad people. They’re all mostly cool people we enjoy hanging out with. But they’re not people we’d have serious life conversations with. Ironically, as one of two childless couples in the family, I’m sure some of them look at us as “not adults” for no other reason than because we’re not parents. I know there’s a contingent here in HN as well that have expressed the same viewpoint. Also, the aforementioned peer (a cousin) we respect as an adult - is the other childless couple in the family. We, and she (and husband) are independent while the parent couples are still quite visibly dependent socially, emotionally, and even sometimes financially, on the older generation. If anything, our parents have started to depend on us as they grow older, which is a responsibility we happily accept. Doubly ironic is that more often than not many members of the family come to us (my wife more so) when they need “serious adult advice”. Even the elders.
- JR1427 6mo agoCall it what you want, but a new life stage begins when we have serious responsibility for another human. For some this comes early, like a "child" looking after a sick parent. For others (like me) this comes with having children. My wife and I look back on the years we thought we were adults, because we lived on our own, had jobs and a cat, and chuckle to ourselves at how grown up we thought we were. This type of pretending to be an adult we call "adulting".
- chistev 6mo agoSo many broken children living in grown bodies mimicking adult lives.
- black_13 6mo ago[dead]
- tomjen3 6mo agoYou don't. There are more consequences to your actions as you age, but you will never feel like are are the person your parents were when you were a kid. Because it was a projection. Seeing my coworkers interacting with their kids and seeing them interact with other adults made it abundantly clear: there are no adults in the room, we are all just muddeling through life and sometimes we do it more or less successful than others.
- em-bee 6mo agoyou will never feel like are are the person your parents were when you were a kid nope, i realized i was becoming my dad when i noticed that i was copying his behavior towards my own kids. for good and for bad. fortunately that was early enough that i could course correct and keep the good and throw out most of the bad.
- armonster 6mo agoWe generally don't. The only real delineation between an "adult" and a "child" lies along acceptance of reality. Many people refuse to do this at various life stages for various things. But this one factor is what determines the difference. It's a skill worth pursuing. Life constantly throws new things at us and we can easily come to a point where we no longer truly want to face some of its realities and we distract and dodge.
- KellyCriterion 6mo agoUnfortunately, Ive given up in my case: - turning 45 this year, still feeling like 34/35 (the back pain is only because of too less sports currently) My Ex always said: Im still on that day when i picked up my Master Testimonial at university back then.
- kerblang 6mo agoThe most consistent answer I see here, in the article, and in people I've talked to is: Taking responsibility. It becomes a moral question. I think if you want to be seen as an adult - as many kids desperately hope to do - responsibility is the most reliable way to get that perception from others, especially from actual adults. The popular alternative of pursuing vice is not going to be so effective. Quite a few folks will push back and insist that such an assessment is unfair, which is fine, if the world agrees with you, or if you just don't care.
- jstrebel 6mo agoAn adult is a person who managed to leave childhood behind, especially in his thoughts. It's the independence of and emancipation from childhood.