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Currently, one is a surveillance company that is motivated to abuse my privacy in every possible way, in order to target ads (and, conceivably, Gemini). The oth

by jmye 7mo ago

Currently, one is a surveillance company that is motivated to abuse my privacy in every possible way, in order to target ads (and, conceivably, Gemini). The other, currently, is a hardware company that's dipped it's toes in advertising and is motivated to sell me devices and services. If, at some point, they converge, I will trust Apple as little as I trust Google, but it's absurd to pretend they're the same thing, today or to "what if" yourself into knots. Google is absolutely an evil company, head to toe, that is aligned against you. Trusting them with anything is almost as stupid as trusting Meta.

Rohansi 7mo ago
> Google is absolutely an evil company, head to toe, that is aligned against you. Trusting them with anything is almost as stupid as trusting Meta. You should never really trust a business with your information. At the end of the day all they care about is making money and most customers have no interest in the business making more money, so you're never really in alignment.
- jmye 7mo ago
  I trust a business to do it's business - I don't believe Apple is going to try to build a massive database of everything I do online, because that is not its business. I do believe Google has a vested interest in knowing everything I do online because that is how it makes money. Thinking they're the same, or will do the same things, or playing slippery slope games is really silly and/or a complete waste of time and energy.
bigyabai 7mo ago
> but it's absurd to pretend they're the same thing, today or to "what if" yourself into knots. It's not absurd whatsoever. Apple and Google are oftentimes asked to make the exact same concessions, and in many cases (see: push notification backdoor) they do exactly the same thing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-... Neither Google nor Apple have any real accountability at play. The same mechanisms that demand Google to surveil users are being accepted by Apple too. The "ad business" canard is (and always was) a distraction.
- jmye 7mo ago
  > The "ad business" canard is (and always was) a distraction. Your position is that Google has not and does not differentially acquire data on its users (and non-users) because... Apple has shared some data with the feds? Is that a serious position?
  - bigyabai 7mo ago
    Your position is that Apple meaningfully differentiates itself by copying Google's worst behavior? Lemming logic does not apply, Apple and Google can't blame each other for assenting to warrantless surveillance.
    - jmye 7mo ago
      My position is that they differentially collect data and that their version of that data collection is worse. It's almost like that's way I've been talking solely about that for the entire thread, in spite of your attempts to whatabout other things into the conversation that you think make Apple Bad. I'm not clear why you're finding this conversation challenging.
      - Rohansi 7mo ago
        There is more to data collection than analytics. This thread is specifically discussing data which users voluntarily share by using Apple's services. Yes, it's still hypothetical, but do you think it's that unlikely? You can't use Advanced Data Protection (full E2EE for iCloud) in the UK anymore. It was forced upon them but compare that vs. their malicious compliance of the EU's DMA. The first only negatively impacts Apple's customers while the second aims to empower customers, but negatively affects Apple.

by jmye 7mo ago

Rohansi 7mo ago

> Google is absolutely an evil company, head to toe, that is aligned against you. Trusting them with anything is almost as stupid as trusting Meta. You should never really trust a business with your information. At the end of the day all they care about is making money and most customers have no interest in the business making more money, so you're never really in alignment.

jmye 7mo ago
I trust a business to do it's business - I don't believe Apple is going to try to build a massive database of everything I do online, because that is not its business. I do believe Google has a vested interest in knowing everything I do online because that is how it makes money. Thinking they're the same, or will do the same things, or playing slippery slope games is really silly and/or a complete waste of time and energy.

bigyabai 7mo ago

> but it's absurd to pretend they're the same thing, today or to "what if" yourself into knots. It's not absurd whatsoever. Apple and Google are oftentimes asked to make the exact same concessions, and in many cases (see: push notification backdoor) they do exactly the same thing: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-secretly-giving-governments-push-notification-data/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/12/apple-admits-to-... Neither Google nor Apple have any real accountability at play. The same mechanisms that demand Google to surveil users are being accepted by Apple too. The "ad business" canard is (and always was) a distraction.

jmye 7mo ago
> The "ad business" canard is (and always was) a distraction. Your position is that Google has not and does not differentially acquire data on its users (and non-users) because... Apple has shared some data with the feds? Is that a serious position?
- bigyabai 7mo ago
  Your position is that Apple meaningfully differentiates itself by copying Google's worst behavior? Lemming logic does not apply, Apple and Google can't blame each other for assenting to warrantless surveillance.
  - jmye 7mo ago
    My position is that they differentially collect data and that their version of that data collection is worse. It's almost like that's way I've been talking solely about that for the entire thread, in spite of your attempts to whatabout other things into the conversation that you think make Apple Bad. I'm not clear why you're finding this conversation challenging.
    - Rohansi 7mo ago
      There is more to data collection than analytics. This thread is specifically discussing data which users voluntarily share by using Apple's services. Yes, it's still hypothetical, but do you think it's that unlikely? You can't use Advanced Data Protection (full E2EE for iCloud) in the UK anymore. It was forced upon them but compare that vs. their malicious compliance of the EU's DMA. The first only negatively impacts Apple's customers while the second aims to empower customers, but negatively affects Apple.