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The name of this CPU is bordering on securities fraud. When people see the term "AGI" now, they are assuming "Artificial General Intelligence", not "Agentic AI
by tombert 7mo ago
The name of this CPU is bordering on securities fraud. When people see the term "AGI" now, they are assuming "Artificial General Intelligence", not "Agentic AI Infrastructure".
Of course people don't realize that, and people will buy ARM stock thinking they've cracked AGI. The people running Arm absolutely know this, so this name is what we in the industry call a "lie".
- boxedemp 7mo agoIt's HD and ai and 5G and and that
- alfalfasprout 7mo agothe whole AI space is rife with much worse example of what could be considered securities fraud tbh
- monegator 7mo agoIn case you haven't noticed, this whole thing has been a grift since 2022. It's kind of amazing that nobody thought of making AGI processors before
- torginus 7mo agoConsidering AGI has been degraded into a generic feelgood marketing word, I can't wait to get my AGI-scented deodorant.
- SecretDreams 7mo ago> I can't wait to get my AGI-scented deodorant. Old spice for me, thanks!
- BLKNSLVR 7mo agoOld Spice, that's OG!
- bensyverson 7mo agoYou can already drink AGI! Oh sorry, AG1. The resemblance must be a complete coincidence.
- krogenx 7mo agoPretty sure in that case AG stands for Athletic Greens. I think the name change also came before the AI hype.
- BLKNSLVR 7mo agoAGI: Attorney General Intelligence. I believe Arm probably has cracked this very low bar.
- parl_match 7mo ago> The resemblance must be a complete coincidence. I don't know why so many people are willing to descend into flippant, lazy conspiracy instead of a 7 second Google search before making a claim? AG1 was started in 2010 by a police officer from New Zealand and AG stands for Athletic Greens. There is a fair amount of controversy around the company's claims, so I suppose that is one symmetry between AG1 and AGI.
- bensyverson 7mo agoNot a conspiracy, and I know the history—just a joke. The current branding sure looks like AGI if you're not looking closely (or maybe I just read too much hn)
- rsktaker 7mo agoI laughed!
- bogzz 7mo agoOh, is that what they're implementing in schools? No, wait, that was A1, probably the sauce.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 7mo agoArtificial Gut Incense?
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- can16358p 7mo agoBuy it in combo with the good ol' Blockchain perfume!
- lxgr 7mo agoYou mean iced tea, right?
- lxgr 7mo agoLong Blockchain Corp. remembers [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Blockchain_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Blockchain_Corp.
- Ucalegon 7mo agoMarketing is marketing, nothing about it was ever about being factual when there is a total addressable market to go after and dollars to be made! This is inline with much of the other marketing that exists in the AI space as it stands now, not mention the use of AGI within the space as it stands currently.
- tombert 7mo agoSure, but there are plenty of cases where a deceptive name has been considered enough to at least warrant an investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Blockchain_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Blockchain_Corp. I'm not saying anything is going to happen, ARM holdings has a lot more money and lawyers than Long Blockchain did, but I'm just saying that it's not weird to think that a deceptive name could be considered false advertising.
- Ucalegon 7mo agoThat would not hold up considering that they consistently use 'agentic' in their press release and make no mention of 'artificial general intelligence'. Just because two things have the same acronym does not mean that they stand for the same thing. Marketing being cheeky is not a crime.
- tombert 7mo agoIt's not "being cheeky". They know that the holy grail for AI is AGI. They know that people are going to see the acronym AGI and assume Artificial General Intelligence. They know that people aren't going to read the full article. This isn't just a crass joke or a pun, it's outright deception. I'm not a lawyer, maybe it wouldn't hold up in court, but you cannot convince me that they aren't doing this on purpose.
- Ucalegon 7mo agoof course they did it on purpose but thats not illegal. They are not at fault for individuals not reading what the acronym stands for and the intent that they place within the press release, which is very, very clear. They are not obligated or liable for others lack of due diligence.
- bhouston 7mo agoIf you showed someone what our computers can do with the latest LLMs now to someone 5 years ago they would probably say it sure looks a lot like AGI. We have to keep defining AGI upwards or nitpick it to show that we haven't achieved it. I would argue that LLMs are actually smarter than the majority of humans right now. LLMs do not have quite the agency that humans have, but their intelligence is pretty decent. We don't have clear ASI yet, but we definitely are in a AGI-era. I think we are missing an ego/motiviations in the AGI and them having self-sufficiency independent of us, but that is just a bit of engineering that would actually make them more dangerous, it isn't really a significant scientific hurdle.
- tombert 7mo agoOk, but it's not AGI. People five years ago would have been wrong. People who don't have all the information are often wrong about things. ETA: You updated your comment, which is fine but I wanted to reply to your points. > I would argue that LLMs are actually smarter than the majority of humans right now. LLMs do not have quite the agency that humans have, but their intelligence is pretty decent. I would actually argue that they are decidedly not smarter than even dumb humans right now. They're useful but they are glorified text predictors. Yes, they have more individual facts memorized than the average person but that's not the same thing; Wikipedia, even before LLMs also had many more facts than the average person but you wouldn't say that Wikipedia is "smarter" than a human because that doesn't make sense. Intelligence isn't just about memorizing facts, it's about reasoning. The recent Esolang benchmarks indicate that these LLMs are actually pretty bad at that. > We don't have clear ASI yet, but we definitely are in a AGI-era. Nah, not really.
- bhouston 7mo ago> They're useful but they are glorified text predictors. There is a long history of people arguing that intelligence is actually the ability to predict accurately. https://www.explainablestartup.com/2017/06/why-prediction-is-the-essence-of-intelligence.html https://www.explainablestartup.com/2017/06/why-prediction-is... > Intelligence isn't just about memorizing facts, it's about reasoning. Initially, LLMs were basically intuitive predictors, but with chain of thought and more recently agentic experimentation, we do have reasoning in our LLMs that is quite human like. That said, there is definitely a biased towards training set material, but that is also the case with the large majority of humans. For the Esoland benchmarks, I would be curious how much adding a SKILLS.md file for each language would boost performance? I am pretty confidence that we are in the AGI era. It is unsettling and I think it gives people cognitive dissonance so we want to deny it and nitpick it, etc.
- LeifCarrotson 7mo agoThose in the industry don't call it a lie, they call it "marketing". It's those out of the industry who call them lies.
- tombert 7mo agoTouché. I guess I should have said "I call it a lie".
- kergonath 7mo agoAGI is a poorly-defined concept anyway. It’s just vibes, nothing descriptive.
- chromoblob 7mo agoAGI is the automation of self-regulation of language source: 100% personal certainty
- 0x3f 7mo ago> Of course people don't realize that, and people will buy ARM stock thinking they've cracked AGI. Doesn't seem like a very credible assertion. Picking stocks in this way would remove you from the market pretty quickly.
- PessimalDecimal 7mo agoDidn't random companies add block chain to their names only just a few years ago and get 30+% jumps in stock price immediately?
- 0x3f 7mo ago> Just because the stock goes up doesn't mean anyone was tricked. People invest in sentiment, in momentum, in all kinds of second order effects.
- sincerely 7mo agoWouldn’t those second order effects be downstream of the first order effect of people being tricked?
- elictronic 7mo agoRun trading bot looking for news feeds with specific terms. Buy stocks based on this. Understand your fellow humans are lazy and stupid. If you can’t read past the first word of a news article maybe that person shouldn’t be allowed to trade stocks.
- bee_rider 7mo agoThat’s quite different, BlockChain was a buzzword label for existing tech. AGI is a label for something we famously haven’t achieved, and which would be revolutionary if we had. This seems more like calling your spaceship company, I dunno, “Interplanetary Passengers” or something.
- 7mo ago
- throwaway613746 7mo ago[dead]
- imglorp 7mo agoThe marketers did this for 5G also, calling their product 5G before it was actually deployed, only because theirs came after 4G but wanted to ride the upcoming 5G buzz. It seems marketing /depends/ on conflating terms and misleading consumers. Shakespeare might have gotten it wrong with his quip about lawyers. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/att-to-drop-misleading-5g-marketing-for-non-5g-networks https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/att-to-drop-misleading-...
- mort96 7mo agoThere was soooo much intentional disinformation around 5G. Everyone who wanted to sell anything intentionally confused the >1Gbps millimeter wave line-of-sight kind of 5G with the "4G but with some changes to handle more devices connected to one tower" kind of 5G. I wonder how many bought a "5G phone" expecting millimeter wave but only got the slightly improved 4G.
- bee_rider 7mo agoThis is mostly the standard’s fault, right? Putting more conventional wavelengths and the mm stuff together in one standard was… a choice.
- phire 7mo agoFrom a standards design perspective, there is nothing wrong with it. It's the same protocol running on two very different frequency bands. They co-exist and support each other. The problem is how marketing interacted with it.
- ZiiS 7mo agoThey should share a specification (I know this is correctly called a 'standard') but the should have been a separate logo for each non-interoperable group of useful features (a different concept also often called a 'standard'); as USB has proved.
- catlifeonmars 7mo ago
- rootbear 7mo agoThis sort of thing really bugs me! Marketing departments appropriate an existing term and use it in some new, often deceptive way. This goes all the way back to when IBM released “The IBM Personal Computer”, at a time when “personal computer” was a category name. Then Microsoft released Windows, when “windows” was a generic term for windowing systems. Intel did it with their “core” architecture. The list goes on. (Disclosure: I am a casual investor in ARM.)
- emptyfile 7mo ago[dead]
- juleiie 7mo agoIf rich people are this stupid then they deserve to be parted with their cash. If you invest money so mindlessly that you don’t even check what you buy, then no legislation in the world will manage to protect you from your own mind
- tombert 7mo agoIt’s not just rich people though. Most people (at least in the US) have their retirements and the like in things like 401ks, tied to some kind of index like the S&P 500. A company doing bullshit to manipulate the stock affects pretty much anyone who uses an index fund or ETF, which is pretty much everyone in the US.
- elictronic 7mo agoYou invest in index funds and etfs so your money averages out and you don’t get impacted by a single companies stupidity.
- tombert 7mo agoNo, the impact is lessened, but there can still be an impact from an individual company's stupidity.
- fsckboy 7mo agoas it has always been, and therefore expected rates of return and risk assessments reflect that. this is precisely what markets and legal systems do. it's naive to imagine that there is a utopia someplace that we are failing to find
- groby_b 7mo agoHonestly: The people who buy stock because a product says "AGI" in the name deserve to lose their shirt. And no, it's not "a lie", because only an utter idiot would consider a product name an actual fact. It's a name. The Hopper GPUs also didn't ship with a lifesize cutout of Grace Hopper.
- tombert 7mo agoNo, it's actually a lie, and it's different than the Hopper GPU you mentioned. People have been seeing every big AI company talk about how AGI is the holy grail of AI, and how they're all trying to reach it. Arm naming a chip AGI is clearly meant to make casual observers think they cracked AGI. The Hopper GPU isn't the same, because Nvidia isn't actively trying to make people think that it includes a lifesize cutout of Grace Hopper. Not a dig on her, but most people don't know who Grace Hopper is, people haven't been hearing on the news for the last several years about how having a Grace Hopper is going to make every job irrelevant.
- giancarlostoro 7mo agoIt's just going the way of "Smartphone" and "Smart Car" they'll market it as such to get people riled up about it. Consumers will eat it up. I'm sure Scam Altman is ready to show us "AGI" next too. If ARM is making AGI's meaning shift to a CPU descriptor, anyone can call their tech "AGI" by just using their chips.
- usrusr 7mo agoDo you think that we should live in a world where investors who buy on a comical misinterpretation of an acronym are protected from their naivety? Why isn't there a minority shareholder lawsuit on the news because someone bought MSFT not realizing that Copilot isn't actually certified to fly an airliner? A certain type of people would likely just buy MSFT on a massive lever and then if the bet fails to work out sue pretending that they did not understand.
- tombert 7mo agoYou're being purposefully obtuse. People have been hearing for the last three years about how a specific acronym, "AGI", is the final frontier of artificial intelligence and how it's going to change the entire economy around it. They've been hearing about this quasi-theoretical, very specific thing, and a lot of them don't even know what the "G" stands for. People haven't been hearing for years about a mythical "copilot", and as such I think people are much more likely to think it's not anything more than a cute nickname. Are you suggesting that this is just a coincidence? The acronym AGI doesn't even make sense for Agentic AI Infrastructure, which should be AAII; they're clearly calling it AGI to mislead people. I refuse to think that the people running Arm are so stupid that they didn't even Google the acronym before releasing the chip. You think it's a "comical misinterpretation", but I don't think it is. When I saw the article, I thought "shit; did they manage to crack AGI?", and I clicked the article and was disappointed. I suspect a lot of people aren't even going to read the press release.
- dakolli 7mo agoIf this headline lead you to believe that ARM has somehow cracked AGI, you deserve to lose your money..
- imtringued 7mo agoARM has cracked Agentic AI infrastructure. What are you on about? AGI is a solved problem. The next generation models will have AGI capabilities.
- dakolli 7mo agoI really hope this is satire. If not, please see a psychiatrist
- jasonvorhe 7mo agoIf sind can't do the most basic due diligence as in reading up on stuff you invest in using Wikipedia or a search engine, best of luck to them.
- bluegatty 7mo agoPeople buying these kinds of chips will know. AGI is barely a popular concept. Nobody in my family knows what it means.
- _3u10 7mo agoI thought they were adding support for AGI slots
- nixass 7mo agoI'm "people" and AGI means nothing to me
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- andsoitis 7mo ago> The name of this CPU is bordering on securities fraud. No. For it to be securities fraud, Arm would need to make a materially false statement of fact that misleads investors. Naming the CPU in this way doesn't clear the bar because: a) the name is clearly product brand, similar to how macOS Lion, or Microsoft Windows, or Ford Mustang, or Yves Saint Laurent Black Opium don't mean literally what they say) b) Arm explicitly defines it as silicon "designed to power the next generation of AI infrastructure", with the technical specs fully disclosed c) sophisticated investors, the relevant standard for securities fraud, can read a spec sheet d) Arms' EVP said "We think that the CPU is going to be fundamental to ultimately achieving AGI", framing it as contribution towards AGI, not AGI itself
- croon 7mo agoI was on board with A through C, but then with D it's either clearly a lie or stupidity. I guess it's not a lie technically if they believe it though, so the latter then. But I also don't want to assume someone in their position to be stupid, so then I'm back to the former.
- andsoitis 7mo agoSo D undermines A - C in your mind? That doesn't make sense.
- croon 7mo agoHuge IANAL disclaimer to start, but your post started off with: > No. For it to be securities fraud, Arm would need to make a materially false statement of fact that misleads investors. Naming the CPU in this way doesn't clear the bar because:... The EVP statement doesn't say "our CPU does AGI", sure, but is it unfair to suggest it makes some form av AGI claim, which isn't there from the naming alone? It's no longer your point A) "clearly product brand" if the established usage of the term "AGI" comes out of the EVP's mouth. And yes, their (albeit very vague) claim is clearly wrong IMHO.
- fidotron 7mo agoAn unappreciated aspect of Arm is they really were the Robin Saxby show. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Saxby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Saxby Whichever ISA had him selling it was going to win. While AArch64 represents the technical revolution they needed their business compass has just gone ever since he stepped down. This grimy stuff, and as others noted competing with your own customers, were no goes in the earlier era.
- rayiner 7mo agoCan you imagine being an engineer and working hard to create something new and cool and some jackass in marketing slaps the name “AGI CPU” on it?
- Zopieux 7mo agoOn the contrary, I love that companies are semantically overloading this stupid concept (purposefully or not) which is 100% hype marketing. I don't understand why this label is still a thing in the current discourse, and I hope such moves will finally help people and the industry move on.
- yrds96 7mo agoPeople ruined the word AGI before this to be fair, we will need another word to describe "real AGI" when it comes
- keysersoze33 7mo agoThis smells like the beginning of entshitification at ARM. I'm not saying AMD or Intel are a whole lot better, but the move to compete with licencees of ARM tech and to cheekily use AGI in the name is not going to ensure confidence in the short or long term.
- ksec 7mo agoARM have given enough time for their licenses, even with special terms and discount just hoping they could crack the server market. But six years in and looking at the next 3-4 years. They are no where near competing with x86 on server other than on hypersalers. I don't see how entering this market now is enshitification . If anything I wish they had enter the market two years earlier.
- keysersoze33 7mo agoThat's a really good point - thanks for chiming in
- t312227 7mo agoidk, but when i see the abbreviation "AGI" i associate it with "ads generated income" ... every other interpretation is hollowed out / reduced to "marketing speak" by now ;)
- ZiiS 7mo agoI mean we can all meme on investors, but I don't thing many people can submit a buy order whilst assuming they missed the AGI news headline because of a product name.
- kane_rogers 7mo agoEverything is securities fraud, but I don’t think this is securities fraud.