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LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC, and there's zero evidence this controller was overworked. You seem to be prematurely ascribing cause when nothing has be

by 0xy 7mo ago

LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC, and there's zero evidence this controller was overworked. You seem to be prematurely ascribing cause when nothing has been investigated yet.

consumer451 7mo ago
> LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC According to whom? Management, or controllers? Certainly does not seem like controllers agree: https://old.reddit.com/r/ATC/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ATC/
banannaise 7mo ago
The evidence that this controller was overworked is that practically all controllers in the US at present are overworked. As such, that should be treated as the null hypothesis, and it would require substantial evidence to show that he isn't overworked.
- PUSH_AX 7mo ago
  I'd pay to watch someone say this in a court of law...
  - ceejayoz 7mo ago
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reasonable_person https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reasonable_person The concept most certainly exists.
- Esophagus4 7mo ago
  Couldn’t we just… wait to see what FAA says before coming up with our own (entirely speculative) theories?
  - afavour 7mo ago
    Can we trust the FAA's conclusion? Its previous head had a term that didn't expire until 2028 but he resigned after pressure from Elon Musk (who didn't like that he got fined), now a Trump-friendly head has been installed. What, realistically, would be the consequences if he lied? Likely none. Government officials lying on record is an every day occurrence these days.
    - Esophagus4 7mo ago
      True! Assumptions and speculation are always better. I’m glad we’ve made our conclusions up front before the report has even come out. That saves me a lot of reading!
      - afavour 7mo ago
        Come on, this is silly. The fact that air traffic controllers are overworked is neither an assumption nor speculation. It is very widely documented.
        mmooss 7mo ago
        It does not at all mean that this controller was overworked when this crash happened; that would be failed reasoning and misuse of evidence. It just raises the question, which should be looked at. It's scary that so many don't seem to know the difference. This is how misinformation starts and spreads.
        Esophagus4 7mo ago
        The only thing we know so far is from two minutes of ATC audio. That’s literally it. Anything else is speculation and extrapolation. But don’t let that stop you if you already know what caused the tragedy.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
    - pc86 7mo ago
      You're 100% right, a "Trump-friendly" administrator has been "installed" so we can't trust the FAA's conclusions. The last guy quit so this guy is definitely going to lie.
  - hanche 7mo ago
    NTSB is the relevant institution, not FAA.
longislandguido 7mo ago
The parent post was unjustly flagged for no other reason than facts make overly emotional people here squirm with anger. Pathetic and lame. This is worthy of losing flagging privileges IMO. The Secretary of Transportation said on record at the first press conference that reports this guy was working alone in the tower are INACCURATE. The actual number is the responsibility of the NTSB to disclose. 95% of this discussion is people blowing smoke out of their ass as per usual.
- wat10000 7mo ago
  If a member of this administration said he wasn’t working alone, that’s solid evidence he was. The evidence that he was overworked seems pretty damned obvious. He forgot about an entire airplane and put a fire truck in its path. The evidence of overwork is strewn all around LGA.
  - longislandguido 7mo ago
    > If a member of this administration said he wasn’t working alone, that’s solid evidence he was. This is deranged. Seek help.
    - wat10000 7mo ago
      What's deranged about treating information from notorious liars as evidence against whatever they say?
- pbhjpbhj 7mo ago
  From VAS Aviation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm-QJAAzNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm-QJAAzNY, or possibly in the comments, it was noted that there were 2 people on - one in the tower, one elsewhere in charge of approach. So perhaps, it's innacurate because he was working "with" the person on approach, but still accurate to what we would all call "working alone"?
  - longislandguido 7mo ago
_moof 7mo ago
There's a mountain of evidence. No single controller should ever be running tower and ground at an airport like LGA.

by 0xy 7mo ago

LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC, and there's zero evidence this controller was overworked. You seem to be prematurely ascribing cause when nothing has been investigated yet.

consumer451 7mo ago

> LaGuardia did have a fully staffed ATC According to whom? Management, or controllers? Certainly does not seem like controllers agree: https://old.reddit.com/r/ATC/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ATC/

banannaise 7mo ago

The evidence that this controller was overworked is that practically all controllers in the US at present are overworked. As such, that should be treated as the null hypothesis, and it would require substantial evidence to show that he isn't overworked.

PUSH_AX 7mo ago
I'd pay to watch someone say this in a court of law...
- ceejayoz 7mo ago
  https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reasonable_person https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reasonable_person The concept most certainly exists.
Esophagus4 7mo ago
Couldn’t we just… wait to see what FAA says before coming up with our own (entirely speculative) theories?
- afavour 7mo ago
  Can we trust the FAA's conclusion? Its previous head had a term that didn't expire until 2028 but he resigned after pressure from Elon Musk (who didn't like that he got fined), now a Trump-friendly head has been installed. What, realistically, would be the consequences if he lied? Likely none. Government officials lying on record is an every day occurrence these days.
  - Esophagus4 7mo ago
    True! Assumptions and speculation are always better. I’m glad we’ve made our conclusions up front before the report has even come out. That saves me a lot of reading!
    - afavour 7mo ago
      Come on, this is silly. The fact that air traffic controllers are overworked is neither an assumption nor speculation. It is very widely documented.
      - mmooss 7mo ago
        It does not at all mean that this controller was overworked when this crash happened; that would be failed reasoning and misuse of evidence. It just raises the question, which should be looked at. It's scary that so many don't seem to know the difference. This is how misinformation starts and spreads.
      - Esophagus4 7mo ago
        The only thing we know so far is from two minutes of ATC audio. That’s literally it. Anything else is speculation and extrapolation. But don’t let that stop you if you already know what caused the tragedy.
        deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
  - pc86 7mo ago
    You're 100% right, a "Trump-friendly" administrator has been "installed" so we can't trust the FAA's conclusions. The last guy quit so this guy is definitely going to lie.
- hanche 7mo ago
  NTSB is the relevant institution, not FAA.

longislandguido 7mo ago

The parent post was unjustly flagged for no other reason than facts make overly emotional people here squirm with anger. Pathetic and lame. This is worthy of losing flagging privileges IMO. The Secretary of Transportation said on record at the first press conference that reports this guy was working alone in the tower are INACCURATE. The actual number is the responsibility of the NTSB to disclose. 95% of this discussion is people blowing smoke out of their ass as per usual.

wat10000 7mo ago
If a member of this administration said he wasn’t working alone, that’s solid evidence he was. The evidence that he was overworked seems pretty damned obvious. He forgot about an entire airplane and put a fire truck in its path. The evidence of overwork is strewn all around LGA.
- longislandguido 7mo ago
  > If a member of this administration said he wasn’t working alone, that’s solid evidence he was. This is deranged. Seek help.
  - wat10000 7mo ago
    What's deranged about treating information from notorious liars as evidence against whatever they say?
pbhjpbhj 7mo ago
From VAS Aviation, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm-QJAAzNY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbm-QJAAzNY, or possibly in the comments, it was noted that there were 2 people on - one in the tower, one elsewhere in charge of approach. So perhaps, it's innacurate because he was working "with" the person on approach, but still accurate to what we would all call "working alone"?
- longislandguido 7mo ago

_moof 7mo ago

There's a mountain of evidence. No single controller should ever be running tower and ground at an airport like LGA.