5 ms·

Cuba's Fragile Power Grid Finds a Powerful New Partner

50 points by thelastgallon 7mo ago

fakedang 7mo ago
It's China, Cuba needs $8-10 billion USD, money that China isn't that eager to put into Cuba, but Trump's constant warmongering against Cuba has given China the opportunity to put a bunch of spy stations on the island. #savedyouaclick
- ohhman11 7mo ago
  >Trump's constant warmongering against Cuba has given China the opportunity to put a bunch of spy stations on the island. These kinds of claims would really benefit from additional information regarding the nature of such spy stations. What would they do and why? I don't think Cuba is exactly a top tier sigint location. They could install radar, but that's not spying.
  - fakedang 7mo ago
    You'd be surprised at the benefits of something as mundane as proximity in espionage. Especially for a country like China or Russia which is very far away from mainland USA. Tracking troop movements at lower latency, tracking comms on unsecured networks, monitoring satellite launches happening from Florida, etc.
    - ohhman11 7mo ago
      What espionage equipment could China put in Cuba that they could not put inside the US?
      - fakedang 7mo ago
        For starters, actual spy stations away from the US, inside the borders of a friendly country? Mar-a-Lago is just next door to Cuba. Setting up reliable and fully controlled spy networks within the borders of a hostile country is hard. Like casting Idris Elba as James Bond (to borrow Trevor Noah's quote). With a few in Cuba, they've got proximity to develop HUMINT, gather OSINT and SIGINT, with potential tracking of US military movements in the Caribbean and Atlantic at super-low latency.
- vintermann 7mo ago
  Yes, the question is how reliable those claims are. Cuba doesn't have a lot of foreign currency, but it does have a lot of cheap labor, often shockingly skilled labor. Boiling it down to a cost in dollars may not be easy, let alone saying "China won't spend that".
  - fakedang 7mo ago
    China is most definitely going to be spending that in a tit-for-tat arrangement, as hinted at by the spy stations.
    - vintermann 7mo ago
      Yes, China is already spending so much in much less developed/educated places, seemingly just for "goodwill" or at least to be in a good place once the US hegemony falls. The only reason they wouldn't do it in Cuba would be to avoid needlessly provoking the US, but I think they have a good excuse now (clearly US is the provocateur, they're only restoring some semblance of balance in the longer term).
yanhangyhy 7mo ago
I forgot where I saw this claim, but it said that China has actually encouraged Cuba to carry out a similar kind of economic transition, yet it was rejected, so the only things China has been able to do are to provide aid in areas such as food and electricity. Socialism is not necessarily unworkable; rather, in a world full of forces trying to destroy you — for example, under decades-long economic blockade by the United States — it is impossible for Cubans to live a normal life. The results brought by socialism may not be better than capitalism under such conditions. Of course, turning toward the United States could be even worse, meaning that a large amount of Cuba’s wealth would be transferred to and controlled by the U.S., and a pro-American regime would be established. It would be similar to how nobody cares about the Philippines, one of the poorest countries with the highest proportion of prostitution in the world, which has a U.S.-style political system, and nobody cares about the lives of the many “free” people living in slums. Solar energy is something remarkable. It not only provides the basic necessities of life, but also gives countries and their people greater autonomy. I hope Cuba can hold on until the day it can develop its economy normally, and until the day the United States declines.
- u_sama 7mo ago
  >decades-long economic blockade by the United States myth, an incredible myth, the US has a package of sanctions and an embargo, Cuba is free to trade with other nations. The reason of the economic powerty and Cubans not being able to live a normal life is mostly self-inflicted (by their government, not the people) from an extractive elite who kept the old colonial system but just changed hands and drapings, with who is on top, plus the disastrous results of marxsist-leninist economic policies who are blind to reality
  - defrost 7mo ago
    Not a myth, and as for > Cuba is free to trade with other nations. The embargo was reinforced in October 1992 by the Cuban Democracy Act and in 1996 by the Cuban Liberty and Democracy Solidarity Act (known as the Helms–Burton Act) which penalizes foreign companies that do business in Cuba by preventing them from doing business in the U.S. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act I'm not seeing when the Helms–Burton Act was set aside.
ZeroGravitas 7mo ago
It would be interesting to read an actual deep technical dive on this. Was cuba previously generating electricity with imported oil? How were they paying for that? A gift from Venezuela? It seems possible that the solar is actually batter and cheaper than what they were paying for before but needs up-front financing, which is a general issue with solar in developing nations.
- metalman 7mo ago
  Cuba barters with other countrys using inovative ideas, involving medical and military personel for active service, training and education. They also have maintained simple technologys that are embargo proof, like steam engines for railroads, slow ,clunky, realy realy hard to kill. Also Cuba is popular everywhere for many things,but especialy in there role as, go to communist devil, in spite of how often the label slides off and has to be furiously re applied.
  - nradov 7mo ago
    There's nothing particularly innovative about selling the services of mercenaries to other dictatorships. Hopefully they'll all be killed.
    - UtopiaPunk 7mo ago
      Cuba's doctors and medical research is helping struggling countries live to see another day. They punch way above their weight. Incredible really, given they are a small island nation, living under the shadow of the biggest, most advanced military in the world, and it hates them.
ajewhere 7mo ago
I just hope someone puts the emperors of the world in a tight straightjacket

50 points by thelastgallon 7mo ago

It's China, Cuba needs $8-10 billion USD, money that China isn't that eager to put into Cuba, but Trump's constant warmongering against Cuba has given China the opportunity to put a bunch of spy stations on the island. #savedyouaclick

ohhman11 7mo ago
>Trump's constant warmongering against Cuba has given China the opportunity to put a bunch of spy stations on the island. These kinds of claims would really benefit from additional information regarding the nature of such spy stations. What would they do and why? I don't think Cuba is exactly a top tier sigint location. They could install radar, but that's not spying.
- fakedang 7mo ago
  You'd be surprised at the benefits of something as mundane as proximity in espionage. Especially for a country like China or Russia which is very far away from mainland USA. Tracking troop movements at lower latency, tracking comms on unsecured networks, monitoring satellite launches happening from Florida, etc.
  - ohhman11 7mo ago
    What espionage equipment could China put in Cuba that they could not put inside the US?
    - fakedang 7mo ago
      For starters, actual spy stations away from the US, inside the borders of a friendly country? Mar-a-Lago is just next door to Cuba. Setting up reliable and fully controlled spy networks within the borders of a hostile country is hard. Like casting Idris Elba as James Bond (to borrow Trevor Noah's quote). With a few in Cuba, they've got proximity to develop HUMINT, gather OSINT and SIGINT, with potential tracking of US military movements in the Caribbean and Atlantic at super-low latency.
vintermann 7mo ago
Yes, the question is how reliable those claims are. Cuba doesn't have a lot of foreign currency, but it does have a lot of cheap labor, often shockingly skilled labor. Boiling it down to a cost in dollars may not be easy, let alone saying "China won't spend that".
- fakedang 7mo ago
  China is most definitely going to be spending that in a tit-for-tat arrangement, as hinted at by the spy stations.
  - vintermann 7mo ago
    Yes, China is already spending so much in much less developed/educated places, seemingly just for "goodwill" or at least to be in a good place once the US hegemony falls. The only reason they wouldn't do it in Cuba would be to avoid needlessly provoking the US, but I think they have a good excuse now (clearly US is the provocateur, they're only restoring some semblance of balance in the longer term).

yanhangyhy 7mo ago

I forgot where I saw this claim, but it said that China has actually encouraged Cuba to carry out a similar kind of economic transition, yet it was rejected, so the only things China has been able to do are to provide aid in areas such as food and electricity. Socialism is not necessarily unworkable; rather, in a world full of forces trying to destroy you — for example, under decades-long economic blockade by the United States — it is impossible for Cubans to live a normal life. The results brought by socialism may not be better than capitalism under such conditions. Of course, turning toward the United States could be even worse, meaning that a large amount of Cuba’s wealth would be transferred to and controlled by the U.S., and a pro-American regime would be established. It would be similar to how nobody cares about the Philippines, one of the poorest countries with the highest proportion of prostitution in the world, which has a U.S.-style political system, and nobody cares about the lives of the many “free” people living in slums. Solar energy is something remarkable. It not only provides the basic necessities of life, but also gives countries and their people greater autonomy. I hope Cuba can hold on until the day it can develop its economy normally, and until the day the United States declines.

u_sama 7mo ago
>decades-long economic blockade by the United States myth, an incredible myth, the US has a package of sanctions and an embargo, Cuba is free to trade with other nations. The reason of the economic powerty and Cubans not being able to live a normal life is mostly self-inflicted (by their government, not the people) from an extractive elite who kept the old colonial system but just changed hands and drapings, with who is on top, plus the disastrous results of marxsist-leninist economic policies who are blind to reality
- defrost 7mo ago
  Not a myth, and as for > Cuba is free to trade with other nations. The embargo was reinforced in October 1992 by the Cuban Democracy Act and in 1996 by the Cuban Liberty and Democracy Solidarity Act (known as the Helms–Burton Act) which penalizes foreign companies that do business in Cuba by preventing them from doing business in the U.S. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act I'm not seeing when the Helms–Burton Act was set aside.

ZeroGravitas 7mo ago

It would be interesting to read an actual deep technical dive on this. Was cuba previously generating electricity with imported oil? How were they paying for that? A gift from Venezuela? It seems possible that the solar is actually batter and cheaper than what they were paying for before but needs up-front financing, which is a general issue with solar in developing nations.

metalman 7mo ago
Cuba barters with other countrys using inovative ideas, involving medical and military personel for active service, training and education. They also have maintained simple technologys that are embargo proof, like steam engines for railroads, slow ,clunky, realy realy hard to kill. Also Cuba is popular everywhere for many things,but especialy in there role as, go to communist devil, in spite of how often the label slides off and has to be furiously re applied.
- nradov 7mo ago
  There's nothing particularly innovative about selling the services of mercenaries to other dictatorships. Hopefully they'll all be killed.
  - UtopiaPunk 7mo ago
    Cuba's doctors and medical research is helping struggling countries live to see another day. They punch way above their weight. Incredible really, given they are a small island nation, living under the shadow of the biggest, most advanced military in the world, and it hates them.

ajewhere 7mo ago

I just hope someone puts the emperors of the world in a tight straightjacket