3 ms·

I remember in college there were always small groups of students chatting with professors after class or going to office hours. Many profs would drop pretty big

I remember in college there were always small groups of students chatting with professors after class or going to office hours. Many profs would drop pretty big hints about upcoming exams. I guess it was a mix of enjoying the attention, pitying weaker students, and wanting to reward "participation". Always felt a bit unfair to me.

butILoveLife 7mo ago
While engineering school was hard, I did think quite a bit of it was pure participation testing. I used to think this was wrong, until I got into engineering.. Sure there is the rare math problem, but most of the difficult part was: "Are you willing to fly to mexico and be awake at 3am when the parts are made?" I might be downplaying though... I did calc 1 at a job.
kevinsync 7mo ago
It's always said that a lot of success and opportunities are attributed to being in the right place at the right time (aka "luck"), but in a lot of cases, those folks had the tenacity to be in the right place ALL the time; when opportunities arise, they typically go to whoever's present and available. Chatting with professors after class or attending office hours might be a grift, but it's not necessarily unfair. Specific circumstances aside, anybody can do it to get some leverage.
- bombcar 7mo ago
  What's the old saying? So much of success is up to luck, but you can make your own luck?
  - jimbokun 7mo ago
    Woody Allen said 80% of success is showing up.
strathmeyer 7mo ago
[dead]
debatem1 7mo ago
What's unfair about office hours? At least at my school they were posted in advance and available to any student at no charge.
- olalonde 7mo ago
  It's not the office hours themselves that felt unfair, but the way some students got privileged hints about upcoming exams.
  - red-iron-pine 7mo ago
    how often did you actually go to these hours? put another way, they showed up and asked questions and got info -- and you didn't. that's not privilege, that's effort
    - olalonde 7mo ago
      I'm not talking about getting more in-depth explanations or clarifications about class material, I'm talking about: "If I were you, I would really focus on that exercise on page 47 (wink wink). Also, just skip chapter 4 (wink wink)". This creates a scenario where a student with genuine subject mastery can actually be outscored by someone who simply got the hints. To answer your question, I don't recall ever going to "office hours", as I was generally a top student with minimal effort and an autodidact, but I learned about it through friends. Having parents who are both professors also gave me a front-row seat to how common this was.
buildbot 7mo ago
Every professor has their own style, most of the ones I had were very open that office hours were a pretty great way to get help/more targeted hints on what to study. This isn’t in my opinion, a problem. Their goal is to educate you as best as possible in theory, via classes, homework, and office hours. Students who take the time and effort to attend office hours clearly want to at least pretend to be putting in extra effort, so why wouldn’t they out more effort into helping them learn? I doubt that they are directly giving away test answers.
- IncreasePosts 7mo ago
  In an astrophysics class I had in college , the professor called on a student to solve a problem, he got it wrong, and the professor said "if you would come to my office hours you would know how to solve this" - the students response was something along the lines of "sorry, my parents are crackheads so I need to work two jobs to pay for school"
  - bombcar 7mo ago
    Plot twist - the student's dad was the professor. I think once they start having homework in kindergarten "doing all the class work during class" is a goal that won't be reached.
  - buildbot 7mo ago
    With all empathy that sucks and is not fair - but should office hours be removed because one student could not attend? Many of the professors I have worked with that I respect have different methods for helping these students- for example sending them an email after class, offering explicit direct help & advice. Or connecting them with a better job, or a research position.
    - IncreasePosts 7mo ago
      No, office hours shouldn't be removed. Perhaps professors should just not reward people who come to office hours beyond the extra instruction that is given. Eg no special knowledge communicated solely in office hours("this question is going to be on the test next week"), and no special treatment ("this student got the wrong answer but I know from office hours they're trying really hard so I'll give them some extra points")
forgotaccount3 7mo ago
> I guess it was a mix of enjoying the attention, pitying weaker students, and wanting to reward "participation". It probably wasn't intentional, just 'I have x minutes a day with the students to teach them the day's lesson. I have more than x minutes worth of content to convey. If you willingly spend more time with me, you may get information that was lower in importance and was missed during the day's classes.'
- olalonde 7mo ago
  I don't see a problem with that and is not what I had in mind with "pretty big hints". See my other reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47493450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47493450

butILoveLife 7mo ago

While engineering school was hard, I did think quite a bit of it was pure participation testing. I used to think this was wrong, until I got into engineering.. Sure there is the rare math problem, but most of the difficult part was: "Are you willing to fly to mexico and be awake at 3am when the parts are made?" I might be downplaying though... I did calc 1 at a job.

kevinsync 7mo ago

It's always said that a lot of success and opportunities are attributed to being in the right place at the right time (aka "luck"), but in a lot of cases, those folks had the tenacity to be in the right place ALL the time; when opportunities arise, they typically go to whoever's present and available. Chatting with professors after class or attending office hours might be a grift, but it's not necessarily unfair. Specific circumstances aside, anybody can do it to get some leverage.

bombcar 7mo ago
What's the old saying? So much of success is up to luck, but you can make your own luck?
- jimbokun 7mo ago
  Woody Allen said 80% of success is showing up.

strathmeyer 7mo ago

[dead]

debatem1 7mo ago

What's unfair about office hours? At least at my school they were posted in advance and available to any student at no charge.

olalonde 7mo ago
It's not the office hours themselves that felt unfair, but the way some students got privileged hints about upcoming exams.
- red-iron-pine 7mo ago
  how often did you actually go to these hours? put another way, they showed up and asked questions and got info -- and you didn't. that's not privilege, that's effort
  - olalonde 7mo ago
    I'm not talking about getting more in-depth explanations or clarifications about class material, I'm talking about: "If I were you, I would really focus on that exercise on page 47 (wink wink). Also, just skip chapter 4 (wink wink)". This creates a scenario where a student with genuine subject mastery can actually be outscored by someone who simply got the hints. To answer your question, I don't recall ever going to "office hours", as I was generally a top student with minimal effort and an autodidact, but I learned about it through friends. Having parents who are both professors also gave me a front-row seat to how common this was.

buildbot 7mo ago

Every professor has their own style, most of the ones I had were very open that office hours were a pretty great way to get help/more targeted hints on what to study. This isn’t in my opinion, a problem. Their goal is to educate you as best as possible in theory, via classes, homework, and office hours. Students who take the time and effort to attend office hours clearly want to at least pretend to be putting in extra effort, so why wouldn’t they out more effort into helping them learn? I doubt that they are directly giving away test answers.

IncreasePosts 7mo ago
In an astrophysics class I had in college , the professor called on a student to solve a problem, he got it wrong, and the professor said "if you would come to my office hours you would know how to solve this" - the students response was something along the lines of "sorry, my parents are crackheads so I need to work two jobs to pay for school"
- bombcar 7mo ago
  Plot twist - the student's dad was the professor. I think once they start having homework in kindergarten "doing all the class work during class" is a goal that won't be reached.
- buildbot 7mo ago
  With all empathy that sucks and is not fair - but should office hours be removed because one student could not attend? Many of the professors I have worked with that I respect have different methods for helping these students- for example sending them an email after class, offering explicit direct help & advice. Or connecting them with a better job, or a research position.
  - IncreasePosts 7mo ago
    No, office hours shouldn't be removed. Perhaps professors should just not reward people who come to office hours beyond the extra instruction that is given. Eg no special knowledge communicated solely in office hours("this question is going to be on the test next week"), and no special treatment ("this student got the wrong answer but I know from office hours they're trying really hard so I'll give them some extra points")

forgotaccount3 7mo ago

> I guess it was a mix of enjoying the attention, pitying weaker students, and wanting to reward "participation". It probably wasn't intentional, just 'I have x minutes a day with the students to teach them the day's lesson. I have more than x minutes worth of content to convey. If you willingly spend more time with me, you may get information that was lower in importance and was missed during the day's classes.'

olalonde 7mo ago
I don't see a problem with that and is not what I had in mind with "pretty big hints". See my other reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47493450 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47493450