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My first job during and out of college back in 2003, we were entirely remote. We hired exclusively over the phone which resulted in a mix of people that were co
by kxrm 7mo ago
My first job during and out of college back in 2003, we were entirely remote. We hired exclusively over the phone which resulted in a mix of people that were completely diverse in their backgrounds and at the same time truly qualified to do the work.
The company went on to grow quite successfully until it was acquired 6 years later. I feel that zoom and video conferencing allows some of that "appearance" factor back in. Based on my experience though, if I had my way, job interviews would be exclusively audio only.
- speedgoose 7mo agoAudio interviews are currently broken. People can use AI and many will do. Not necessarily for speech generation but to know what to say. For research studies, we slowly revert to on premise physical interviews at work. If we want the ChatGPT answers, we don’t need another human in the loop.
- mikkupikku 7mo agoHR loves video interviews for precisely this reason. They understand their role in the company to use their social expertise to suss out bad vibes, and it turns into something like Mean Girls.
- torginus 7mo agoI think most 'attractive' people put effort into their appearances, which might appeal to management types who evaluate work performance. Also, imo the best way to get a management position in my experience isn't to work hard, or be knowledgeable, but to be the least objectionable pick. This varies with country/company, with Euros usually being appearance focused, but in US companies, it's dudes in crumpled T-shirts all the way to the top (in engineering). Seriously, it's so entertaining to sit in on an important meeting with a US vendor which looks like a college dorm party with an impeccably dressed guy or lady (from sales and/or management) who sticks out like a sore thumb.
- mikkupikku 7mo agoBest way to get a manager position is to be a few inches taller than everybody else. It doesn't make a lick of sense, but pay attention to how often the boss is taller than everybody else on the team. Not always, but far more often than random chance can account for. (Incidentally, the best boss I ever had was barely 5 feet.)
- ecshafer 7mo agoIIRC CEOs have a very high average height, and height can account for a very large portion of the female vs male management disparity.
- Ifkaluva 7mo agoI think the full factoid is that CEOs who were promoted to the job are taller than average, but founders are average or slightly below. Zuck is like 5’11”, Satya Nadella is a giant.
- Jensson 7mo ago> and height can account for a very large portion of the female vs male management disparity. Actually it accounts for more than the difference, controlled for height men are discriminated against for leadership positions since there are barely any short male leaders and there are plenty of tall female leaders.
- bombcar 7mo agoThis reminds me that SkyMall (RIP) always had those advertisements for height increasing shoes. Now that I think of it, the inflight magazines still have those ... Amusingly enough the best CEO and best salesman I ever knew (two different people) were below average height.
- neilv 7mo agoIt could be that height says nothing about competence as a CEO, or it could be that the people who attain CEO and succeed despite height bias need to have an exceptionally strong mix of merit/will/effort. I've heard the latter theory at least a couple times about US Navy SEALs. The first time, it was a retired SEAL I knew (well over 6', and a brick wall) who one day out of the blue said something like, "You shouldn't feel bad about being short. The best SEAL I knew was a short guy, and he could kick my ass." Later, I heard a similar anecdote in a speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70&t=440s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBQLFLei70&t=440s
- ghaff 7mo agoThat is far less common outside of tech. Even within tech, I did throw on a blazer and tie when I interviewed for my last job. Totally unnecessary but any company for which that’s actually a problem it’s a red flag. I did start dressing down a bit for most of the developer-oriented conferences I attend for the reason you say.
- JR1427 7mo ago> if I had my way, job interviews would be exclusively audio only. The problem just shifts. People with attractive voices would then have an advantage.
- nemomarx 7mo agoAt least voice coaching / training is relatively accessible? A lot easier than some physical features imo. And you could argue having a clear easy to understand voice is a job skill for most positions, I think.
- lonelyasacloud 7mo agoIndeed, but more tractable for a person to address.
- Aurornis 7mo ago> if I had my way, job interviews would be exclusively audio only. Unfortunately, cheating is becoming rampant in remote interviews, especially for early career roles right now. I think companies are moving toward having final interview rounds in person because it’s such an effective tactic to discourage interview cheating.
- Spivak 7mo agoForget cheating, we get entirely fake people applying for our positions.
- red-iron-pine 7mo agowe get real people who are likely fronts for other people. can't prove where or what -- could be lazy devs in Alabama, or North Koreans -- but it's happened enough that it's notable
- jimbokun 7mo agoSomeone needs to right a novel about an LLM that gets hired through phone interviews, becomes a star employee, and rises through the ranks to CEO , always coming up with excuses to not show up in person. Like a 21st century Office Space. Add in a remote only office romance to give it a romcom vibe.
- ghaff 7mo agoScreens were voice calls for a long time. I’m a big fan of what’s normally the day of interviews be in person even if you take AI cheating out of the picture. I realize not everyone agrees. Zoom interviewing is mostly a COVID outcome.
- Aurornis 7mo agoI think screens will continue to be phone or videoconference. When candidates know the final interview will be in person they give up on cheating. No point in wasting time on cheating through the screens if you’re just going to bomb in person without ChatGPT showing the answers. Though I have heard some stories of candidates desperately trying every excuse they can think of to avoid coming on site for the final interview (Getting COVID is the first-line excuse 90% of the time). When you explain you can delay and reschedule they give up.
- Spooky23 7mo ago> job interviews would be exclusively audio only. Have fun. If you do it in volume, you'll get scammed pretty badly. Both by luck of the draw, and scammers actively targeting you.
- Spooky23 7mo ago> job interviews would be exclusively audio only. Have fun. If you do it in volume, you'll get scammed pretty badly. Both by luck of the draw, and scammers who will actively target you.
- snarf21 7mo agoThe best hiring advice is this: Take half of the resumes you receive and just throw them in the trash. You don't want to hire unlucky people!