6 ms·
https://x.com/thenewarea51/status/2035926457394876837 https://x.com/thenewarea51/status/2035926457394876837 ATC audio make a mistake, recognize it, and then h
by newsclues 7mo ago
https://x.com/thenewarea51/status/2035926457394876837 https://x.com/thenewarea51/status/2035926457394876837
ATC audio
make a mistake, recognize it, and then have to continue on your job, knowing you likely just killed people, because if you don't others will die.
The weight of some jobs is immense, and our civilization relies upon workers to shoulder the burden everyday.
- wat10000 7mo agoAnd these guys are tremendously overworked because the government can’t get its shit together to hire enough people to staff at appropriate levels.
- callmeal 7mo ago"Government"? Let's call it what it is. ITYM "Republicans".
- tatersolid 7mo agoThe shortage of ATC staff dates back to the Clinton Administration. It’s just hard to attract people into a 5+ year training program for a very stressful job where you might get bounced near the end with no payout and no transferrable job skills.
- lesuorac 7mo agoI think you mean Reagan. He removed the union for the ATC not Clinton. Honestly, you can generally just blame Reagan for about anything. A presidency about weaking labor, strengthening Iran, and ballooning the deficit is uh never going to leave good traces.
- nradov 7mo agoReagan did the right thing in that case. Government employees should never have collective bargaining rights. Public employee unions are contrary to the interests of taxpayers.
- callmeal 7mo agoDoes your comment also include the police union(s)?
- nradov 7mo agoYes, absolutely. No government employees should ever have collective bargaining rights. If they want better wages and working conditions then they can advocate for those through the political process, the same as any other citizen.
- wat10000 7mo agoCollective bargaining rights shouldn’t even be a separate thing. They’re just a natural consequence of the fact that free speech is protected and slavery is illegal. The idea of an illegal strike is bizarre.
- rounce 7mo agoIn your suggestion any other citizen has collective bargaining at their disposal, do they not?
- cake_robot 7mo agoYes absolutely. They're a perfect example of the unique issues w/ collective bargaining for public services.
- kube-system 7mo agoOver the course of the past year, I think we've seen more evidence that the federal workforce's collective bargaining rights aren't strong enough. Workers' employment contracts are being ignored, employees are being threatened, constructively terminated, all in an attempt to enact RIFs without following the law. Things are happening to the federal workforce right now that aren't even legal in the private sector.
- nradov 7mo agoIf contracts are violated then the impacted parties can seek redress through the courts. Government employee unions aren't needed for that.
- achr2 7mo agoNo the shortage goes back to Regan when their justified strike was busted. It ended the PATCO “union” and was a negative turning point for labour unions in general.
- MaxfordAndSons 7mo agoATC/GTC seems like a really strong candidate for partial automation with recent advances in AI. Obviously we'd still want some expert humans in the loop for exceptional situations, but I have to imagine there's a way to significantly reduce the cognitive burden/stress for these folks.
- nradov 7mo agoRecent advances in AI aren't useful for routine operations in safety critical domains such as aviation because we don't know how to verify and test them. An LLM is effectively an unpredictable black box with unknown failure modes. There is opportunity for greater automation but probably based on classical deterministic programming.
- matthewkayin 7mo agoIn addition to this, LLMs are also simply too slow right now to deliver the results ATC would need. Ridiculous to see people acting like LLMs are a silver bullet for every problem without putting any thought into what that would actually look like.
- rwyinuse 7mo agoSomehow Europe manages to do that well enough.
- xboxnolifes 7mo agoNot just attract, it also has very high standards. And many people fail out.
- mememememememo 7mo agoYeah the job should say have 10 year income guarantee. If there are no jobs you get paid. We must be talking peanuts. Just do one less invasion per decade. Can call ATC defense spend if you like :)
- jasonlotito 7mo agoYes. Reagan was a Republican.
- wat10000 7mo agoNo, I mean government. This has been a problem for a long time and there hasn't been any serious effort to improve the situation by anyone.
- callmeal 7mo agoYup, it's been a problem ever since Regan (a Republican) fired over 11,000 ATC employees. And by "anyone" ITYM "republicans" again, because Democrats have been trying for years. See this article from 2017: https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2017/06/house-democrats-introduce-faa-reform-bill-counter-air-traffic-control-privatization-plan/138599/ https://www.govexec.com/oversight/2017/06/house-democrats-in...
- wat10000 7mo agoHow many years since Reagan have Democrats held both chambers of Congress and the White House? It’s a few. And yet we’re still here.
- pjmorris 7mo agoThat's because all the Democrats are Republicans. "”The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican,” - Barack Obama [0] [0] https://thehill.com/policy/finance/137156-obama-says-hed-be-seen-as-moderate-republican-in-1980s/ https://thehill.com/policy/finance/137156-obama-says-hed-be-...
- j_w 7mo agoThis is not a statement of Republicans and Democrats being the same, but a statement of Republicans going off the deep end in during and after Reagan. Obama was a very moderate Democrat for his time. If you go back in time a moderate Democrat and Republican were similar because the "center" was more reasonable. Now the "center" is just people that are ashamed that they vote Republican.
- 7mo ago
- k4rli 7mo agoThis goes much deeper than just A vs B. As long as you Americans keep thinking this way, it will all remain the same sadly.
- exabrial 7mo agoAnother option: they shouldn't be government employees at all. It would be much better for them to work for the actual airports themselves and be certified by the government or a private testing organization instead.
- slg 7mo agoLaGuardia, like many (most?) airports, is run by the government. This is a distinction without a difference, at least in this case.
- throwway120385 7mo agoWhich government? State, Federal, City, or a Port Commission? There is in fact a significant distinction between the responsibilities and capabilities of each of these levels of government and you can't lump them all together. My home airport is operated by a port commission, which is government, but the port commission's task is to operate the ports.
- slg 7mo ago>There is in fact a significant distinction between the responsibilities and capabilities of each of these levels of government and you can't lump them all together. But all private businesses have the same responsibilities and capabilities and therefore can be lumped together as one entity? The asymmetry in how you're critiquing the way this is discussed ends up revealing your bias.
- exabrial 7mo agoLaGuardia is not ran by a local government, not the Federal Government.
- slg 7mo agoI genuinely have no idea what point you’re trying to make here. Do state governments not count as governments?
- curiousgal 7mo ago> our civilization relies upon workers to shoulder the burden everyday. Our civilization? Nah. Just that one shithole country. Greatest country in the world and they schedule a single guy to work both tower and ground frequencies at a major airport, it's almost like they're asking for this shit to happen. And before anyone mentions understaffing, this literally one of the plethora of problems that the rest of the world figured out while the U.S. continues to act special.
- OsrsNeedsf2P 7mo agoHe asked the truck to stop multiple times. That's got to be so stressful and annoying - knowing you asked the truck to stop, but for whatever reason the command wasn't received.
- HDThoreaun 7mo agoWe dont know the timing. He may have issued the stop command as the crash was occuring
- kimos 7mo agoThere was 7 seconds between clearance being given and the accident.
- freediver 7mo agoSo sad to hear this. Heartbroken.