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The fire truck was flipped and moved to the side of the runway, this was not 24mph. 24mph is the final groundspeed recorded after the aircraft skidded off of th

The fire truck was flipped and moved to the side of the runway, this was not 24mph. 24mph is the final groundspeed recorded after the aircraft skidded off of the runway. Per the ADSBx track the plane was at 101kts (115 mph / 185kph) just before crossing taxiway D, which would be where it hit the firetruck. It still had enough energy afterwards to reach taxiway E, 600ft away.

bilekas 7mo ago
Okay that makes far more sense the article didn’t really make that clear to me.
cucumber3732842 7mo ago
The results seem on the high end but they check out at first glance. A plane is basically a flimsy tube. A firetruck is a solid brick comparatively. The plane out weighs the fire truck by a lot and out speeds it by a lot. So yeah, destroying the whole front of the plane to punt the truck it sounds about right for a 25 on 5 or 35 on 10/15 type rear ending to me. Flipping doesn't really sound that unreasonable considering that the plane made contact with the top of the truck (just by virtue of comparative height) and contact may not have been straight on. Even if it left the pavement on it's wheels airport firefighters aren't exactly who I'd bet on (they're middle of the pack) to keep the truck on it's wheels if they got surprise kicked off the road especially if there's an embankment involved.
- masklinn 7mo ago
  A CRJ 9000 is 70000 lbs empty, 84500 lbs MTOW. An Oshkosh 1500 4x4 is 62000 lbs GVWR (wiki says kerb weight but it’s incorrect). The plane was landing and the truck was heading to an intervention, so they were likely close to empty and to GVWR respectively. And again, 25mph is the final ground speed, after the plane punted the truck and kept on going for 600ft.
  - cucumber3732842 7mo ago
    Pause the video at 13 sec. That firetruck is awfully intact for something that allegedly got hit at high speed. Basically just a bunch of top side sheetmetal damage (concentrated to the rear, obviously). In any case it didn't even get sent hard enough to screw up the cab exterior. And on the flip side, if you keep cranking the speed up you start getting to where the plane starts looking too suspiciously intact. There's just not much room to work backwards from the apparent results and get a high difference in speed or get very high initial speeds (100 onto 75 or whatever). If the plane was going fast the truck had to be going fast too or there'd be more carnage. But if they were both going fast you'd expect more damage from the after the fact barrel roll and the plane and truck to be a little farther apart in distance.
    - whycome 7mo ago
      Where’s the video you’re referring to? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFF17eaYAA_sgq?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFF17eaYAA_sgq?format=jpg I can’t tell what’s the truck and what’s the remains of the plane in this pic. Another wider angle: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFDcS4bwAA8uu7?format=png&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFDcS4bwAA8uu7?format=png&name=... There’s no way this scene happens from a plane colliding with a truck at 24mph.
      - cucumber3732842 7mo ago
        I'm talking about the headline video from TFA. The back of a firetruck is not a working implement like a dump truck is nor is it sufficiently strong for mounting a crane or man bucket like utility bodies often are It's a bunch of sheetmetal boxes to hold stuff and cover stuff and there's a water tank back there somewhere. In the middle down low some pumps are buried. Basically don't think of it as being any more structural than a box truck body because it's not. All that stuff got shredded, obviously, since they're only really meant to bear their own weight and were subject to all the truck tossing forces here. Beyond that the truck is in pretty good shape. It's not uncommon for a good "off the highway and into the ditch" crash to rip tandems off, twist frames, etc. None of that has happened here. The plane is pretty rough, but that's expected. They are 100% tin cans. Ground equipment moving at idle speeds will absolutely shred them before the operator even feels resistance. A goose hit square on the leading edge of a small jet's wing will put a massive dent in (and apply red paint, lol). 24 sounds about right for a closing speed for plane onto truck. Whatever the baseline speed of the truck was cannot have been that high or the truck would be absolutely shredded from the barrel roll and as it stand the cab is barely pushed in.
- ErroneousBosh 7mo ago
  > A firetruck is a solid brick comparatively. I think you'd be surprised. The cab is quite solid because it has to conform to certain vehicle design and safety criteria (at least here in Europe). The rest of it is made of fairly squashy aluminium box section with panels TIG welded on. There's not a lot left if one of them gets rolled, for example.

bilekas 7mo ago

Okay that makes far more sense the article didn’t really make that clear to me.

cucumber3732842 7mo ago

The results seem on the high end but they check out at first glance. A plane is basically a flimsy tube. A firetruck is a solid brick comparatively. The plane out weighs the fire truck by a lot and out speeds it by a lot. So yeah, destroying the whole front of the plane to punt the truck it sounds about right for a 25 on 5 or 35 on 10/15 type rear ending to me. Flipping doesn't really sound that unreasonable considering that the plane made contact with the top of the truck (just by virtue of comparative height) and contact may not have been straight on. Even if it left the pavement on it's wheels airport firefighters aren't exactly who I'd bet on (they're middle of the pack) to keep the truck on it's wheels if they got surprise kicked off the road especially if there's an embankment involved.

masklinn 7mo ago
A CRJ 9000 is 70000 lbs empty, 84500 lbs MTOW. An Oshkosh 1500 4x4 is 62000 lbs GVWR (wiki says kerb weight but it’s incorrect). The plane was landing and the truck was heading to an intervention, so they were likely close to empty and to GVWR respectively. And again, 25mph is the final ground speed, after the plane punted the truck and kept on going for 600ft.
- cucumber3732842 7mo ago
  Pause the video at 13 sec. That firetruck is awfully intact for something that allegedly got hit at high speed. Basically just a bunch of top side sheetmetal damage (concentrated to the rear, obviously). In any case it didn't even get sent hard enough to screw up the cab exterior. And on the flip side, if you keep cranking the speed up you start getting to where the plane starts looking too suspiciously intact. There's just not much room to work backwards from the apparent results and get a high difference in speed or get very high initial speeds (100 onto 75 or whatever). If the plane was going fast the truck had to be going fast too or there'd be more carnage. But if they were both going fast you'd expect more damage from the after the fact barrel roll and the plane and truck to be a little farther apart in distance.
  - whycome 7mo ago
    Where’s the video you’re referring to? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFF17eaYAA_sgq?format=jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFF17eaYAA_sgq?format=jpg I can’t tell what’s the truck and what’s the remains of the plane in this pic. Another wider angle: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFDcS4bwAA8uu7?format=png&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HEFDcS4bwAA8uu7?format=png&name=... There’s no way this scene happens from a plane colliding with a truck at 24mph.
    - cucumber3732842 7mo ago
      I'm talking about the headline video from TFA. The back of a firetruck is not a working implement like a dump truck is nor is it sufficiently strong for mounting a crane or man bucket like utility bodies often are It's a bunch of sheetmetal boxes to hold stuff and cover stuff and there's a water tank back there somewhere. In the middle down low some pumps are buried. Basically don't think of it as being any more structural than a box truck body because it's not. All that stuff got shredded, obviously, since they're only really meant to bear their own weight and were subject to all the truck tossing forces here. Beyond that the truck is in pretty good shape. It's not uncommon for a good "off the highway and into the ditch" crash to rip tandems off, twist frames, etc. None of that has happened here. The plane is pretty rough, but that's expected. They are 100% tin cans. Ground equipment moving at idle speeds will absolutely shred them before the operator even feels resistance. A goose hit square on the leading edge of a small jet's wing will put a massive dent in (and apply red paint, lol). 24 sounds about right for a closing speed for plane onto truck. Whatever the baseline speed of the truck was cannot have been that high or the truck would be absolutely shredded from the barrel roll and as it stand the cab is barely pushed in.
ErroneousBosh 7mo ago
> A firetruck is a solid brick comparatively. I think you'd be surprised. The cab is quite solid because it has to conform to certain vehicle design and safety criteria (at least here in Europe). The rest of it is made of fairly squashy aluminium box section with panels TIG welded on. There's not a lot left if one of them gets rolled, for example.