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> Wow, it is clear that you are trolling and acting as a propagandist. Asking a question about how Mahsa Amini died is not trolling or propaganda, its not even

> Wow, it is clear that you are trolling and acting as a propagandist. Asking a question about how Mahsa Amini died is not trolling or propaganda, its not even a statement, but a question. > You do know that you can be against violence, hatred and bigotry in general, and not just that of your ‘enemies’, right? I know that, but can you please answer the question, it is you who brought up the matter of critical thinkink skills after all.

beedeebeedee 7mo ago
> I know that Do you? Your whataboutism and dismissing concerns about this war as being butthurt is the dumbest and most morally bankrupt response anyone can make. I absolutely condemn the Iranian regime for what they have done, but that in no way excuses what the Israeli and US regimes have done. This was an unnecessary, unprovoked, world-destabilizing and ultimately counterproductive war. Please stop
- DoctorOetker 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - donkeybeer 7mo ago
    Obviously, I heartily condemn all attempts by Iranian government to execute peaceful civilians in foreign countries just like I heavily condemn Israel's illegal assassinations of peaceful civilian scientists in Iran and worldwide. In both cases, the perpetrators must be brought to a neutral country and punished.
    - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
      > I am not asking you if you condemn what happened to her, I think everyone condemns the fact she died in the hands of the regime, to which you respond: > Obviously, I heartily condemn all attempts by Iranian government to execute peaceful civilians in foreign countries So you change the question from "what actually happened to Mahsa Amini?" to "would you condemn?" even though I predict that any responder already agrees with me and condemns her death in the hands of the regime. Mahsa Amini was not in a foreign country from the perspective of Iran.
      - donkeybeer 7mo ago
        That's nothing, Israelis happily kill their own Prime Ministers. But obviously I condemn Iran and I condemn Israel killing peaceful civilians, the law and the morality applies to all. I mentioned killing civilians in foreign countries as it is strictly worse, as bad as killing innocent people in your own country is, at least it also does not involve the violation of sovereignty and peace of random foreign countries. It is well known that IDF also uses civilians as human shields, so it is quite strange that you only mention the evils and immoral acts committed by one country and not both. None of the countries in that region are very nice by Western standards.
        DoctorOetker 7mo ago
        But what if the Mahsa Amini's case is not just a sad death in the hands of the regime, but also a violation of a treaty which Iran has signed?
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        If it is the ICCPR, then it appears Israel is also a signer and as I said Israel is equally prone to violations of human rights on and off of its territory. So again I do not see what was the point of specifically calling out Iran for it.
        DoctorOetker 7mo ago
        I am referring to a different treaty, which you would realize if you took over from beedeebeedee to look up the video of Mahsa Amini's death and analyzed it critically.
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        All I can see is a video of a woman supposedly fainting and then this being declared her death. If you are trying to insinuate some absurd nonsense like this is evidence of chemical weapons, then be straight. I don't see anything about her cause of death other than speculating police brutality.
- donkeybeer 7mo ago
  LMFAO I had tried to engage him since he was insisting so much I thought he might have something of substance. This is what I got at the end of that hole: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47482420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47482420 Another fun interaction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47488236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47488236
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago
> Asking a question about how Mahsa Amini died is not trolling or propaganda, its not even a statement, but a question. Indeed, it is trolling, even if you think it's not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
- DoctorOetker 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago
    > By such definition, all of science is "sealioning" You are taking an overly literal interpretation of my comment and offering more sophistry in response. Apologies for the short reply but none of the rest seems relevant.
    - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
      Definitions are to be taken literally yes, otherwise its not a good definition.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago
        That is true, but I did not use your comment to define sealioning. Instead, I offered a definition and said that it matches a particular behavior. To claim that I am including scientific research in that definition is to claim the behavior in question as such. Hence, why I disregarded the rest of that comment as further sophistry: you seem to be arguing because you want to appear smart or correct more than you want to be so. As I said in my initial comment, you do not need to intend to troll in order to troll.

beedeebeedee 7mo ago

> I know that Do you? Your whataboutism and dismissing concerns about this war as being butthurt is the dumbest and most morally bankrupt response anyone can make. I absolutely condemn the Iranian regime for what they have done, but that in no way excuses what the Israeli and US regimes have done. This was an unnecessary, unprovoked, world-destabilizing and ultimately counterproductive war. Please stop

DoctorOetker 7mo ago
[flagged]
- donkeybeer 7mo ago
  Obviously, I heartily condemn all attempts by Iranian government to execute peaceful civilians in foreign countries just like I heavily condemn Israel's illegal assassinations of peaceful civilian scientists in Iran and worldwide. In both cases, the perpetrators must be brought to a neutral country and punished.
  - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
    > I am not asking you if you condemn what happened to her, I think everyone condemns the fact she died in the hands of the regime, to which you respond: > Obviously, I heartily condemn all attempts by Iranian government to execute peaceful civilians in foreign countries So you change the question from "what actually happened to Mahsa Amini?" to "would you condemn?" even though I predict that any responder already agrees with me and condemns her death in the hands of the regime. Mahsa Amini was not in a foreign country from the perspective of Iran.
    - donkeybeer 7mo ago
      That's nothing, Israelis happily kill their own Prime Ministers. But obviously I condemn Iran and I condemn Israel killing peaceful civilians, the law and the morality applies to all. I mentioned killing civilians in foreign countries as it is strictly worse, as bad as killing innocent people in your own country is, at least it also does not involve the violation of sovereignty and peace of random foreign countries. It is well known that IDF also uses civilians as human shields, so it is quite strange that you only mention the evils and immoral acts committed by one country and not both. None of the countries in that region are very nice by Western standards.
      - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
        But what if the Mahsa Amini's case is not just a sad death in the hands of the regime, but also a violation of a treaty which Iran has signed?
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        If it is the ICCPR, then it appears Israel is also a signer and as I said Israel is equally prone to violations of human rights on and off of its territory. So again I do not see what was the point of specifically calling out Iran for it.
        DoctorOetker 7mo ago
        I am referring to a different treaty, which you would realize if you took over from beedeebeedee to look up the video of Mahsa Amini's death and analyzed it critically.
        donkeybeer 7mo ago
        All I can see is a video of a woman supposedly fainting and then this being declared her death. If you are trying to insinuate some absurd nonsense like this is evidence of chemical weapons, then be straight. I don't see anything about her cause of death other than speculating police brutality.
donkeybeer 7mo ago
LMFAO I had tried to engage him since he was insisting so much I thought he might have something of substance. This is what I got at the end of that hole: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47482420 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47482420 Another fun interaction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47488236 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47488236

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago

> Asking a question about how Mahsa Amini died is not trolling or propaganda, its not even a statement, but a question. Indeed, it is trolling, even if you think it's not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

DoctorOetker 7mo ago
[flagged]
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago
  > By such definition, all of science is "sealioning" You are taking an overly literal interpretation of my comment and offering more sophistry in response. Apologies for the short reply but none of the rest seems relevant.
  - DoctorOetker 7mo ago
    Definitions are to be taken literally yes, otherwise its not a good definition.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 7mo ago
      That is true, but I did not use your comment to define sealioning. Instead, I offered a definition and said that it matches a particular behavior. To claim that I am including scientific research in that definition is to claim the behavior in question as such. Hence, why I disregarded the rest of that comment as further sophistry: you seem to be arguing because you want to appear smart or correct more than you want to be so. As I said in my initial comment, you do not need to intend to troll in order to troll.