6 ms·

Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. Ollama is also doin

by mohsen1 7mo ago

Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. Ollama is also doing this. There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days. So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah.

NitpickLawyer 7mo ago
> packaging open source and reselling it. It's a bit more than that. They have plenty of data to inform any finetunes they make. I don't know how much of a moat it will turn out to be in practice, but it's something. There's a reason every big provider made their own coding harness.
- pbowyer 7mo ago
  Can anyone enlighten me how having a coding harness when for most customers you say "we won't train on your code" helps you do RL? What's the data that they rely on? Is it the prompts and their responses?
  - rubymamis 7mo ago
    I guess they rely on many people not toggling privacy-mode on?
  - victorbjorklund 7mo ago
    I doubt the majority does that. I bet the majority is using the defaults.
  - __mharrison__ 7mo ago
    Does "code" include the prompt? Seems like the prompts would be the goldmines. Hook those up to rl an open weight model...
  - doctorpangloss 7mo ago
    It doesn't matter what your privacy setting is, with any savvy vendor. Your data is used to train by paraphrasing it, and the paraphrasing makes it impossible to prove it was your data (it is stored at rest paraphrased). Of course the paraphrasing stores all the salient information, like your goals and guidance to the bot to the answer, even if it has no PII.
    - happyopossum 7mo ago
      That's an interesting accusation there! You're essentially accusing every "savvy vendor" of large-scale fraud... DOn't suppose you'd have any actual citations or evidence to back that up?
  - josho 7mo ago
    The meta data is useful. Eg, When a prompt had a bad result and was edited, or had lots of back and forth to correct tool usage that information can be distilled and used to improve models. And now imagine if you are focused on this for weeks you can likely come up with other ideas to leverage the metadata to improve model performance.
rubymamis 7mo ago
Do you know what Qwen model Composer 1.5 used?
rvz 7mo ago
> Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen... We know Composer 2 is Kimi K2.5 from that tweet. Where is the evidence for Composer 1 being based on Qwen? > So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah. In this case, it will be the other way round: Anthropic will see Cursor as a competitor AI lab using open weight models for Composor 2 (actually Kimi K2.5) which was allegedly distilled from Opus 4.6, and would be enough for Anthropic to cut off Cursor from using any of models. That's where it is going.
dmix 7mo ago
Cursor’s integration is much deeper than just plugging an LLM into VSCode That said I have a feeling both VSCode and Claude code will catch up to their integration. But neither comes close yet (I say that as someone who mainly uses Claude Code).
- bearjaws 7mo ago
  As a command line junkie, what is the main thing Claude Code needs to catch up with cursor? I haven't dove into using a LLM in my editor, so I am less familiar with workflows there.
  - lubujackson 7mo ago
    I use both pretty heavily. Cursor has an "Ask" mode that is useful when I don't want it to touch files or ask a non-sequitur. Claude may have an easy way to do this, but I haven't seeked it. Cursor also has an interesting Debug mode that actively adds specific debug logging logic to your code, runs through several hypotheses in a loop to narrow down the cause, then cleans up the logging. It can be super useful. Finally, when making peecise changes I can select a function, hit cmd-L and add certain ljnes of code to the context. Hard to do that in Claude. Cursor tends to be much faster for quicker, more precise work in general, and rarely goes "searching through the codebase" for things. Most importantly, I'm cheap. a If I leave Cursor on Auto I can use it full time, 8 hours a day, and never go past the $20 monthly charge. Yes, it is probably just using free models but they are quite decent now, quick and great for inline work.
    - nsingh2 7mo ago
      The majority of Ask/Debug mode can be reproduced using skills. For copying code references, if you're using VS Code, you can look at plugins like [1], or even make your own. Cursor's auto mode is flaky because you don't know which model they're routing you to, and it could be a smaller, worse model. It's hard to see why paying a middleman for access to models would be cheaper than going directly to the model providers. I was a heavy Cursor user, and I've completely switched to Codex CLI or Claude Code. I don't have to deal with an older, potentially buggier version of VS Code, and I also have the option of not using VS Code at all. One nice thing about Cursor is its code and documentation embedding. I don't know how much code embedding really helps, but documentation embedding is useful. [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ezforo.copy-relative-path-and-line-numbers https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ezforo.c...
miroljub 7mo ago
> Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. The question is, where's the outrage? Why are there no headlines "USA steals Chinese tech?" "All USA can do is make a cheap copy of Chinese SOTA models". > So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah. Well, if it's an American company, then it's a noble underdog story. When Chinese do it, they are thieves leeching on the US tech investment. It's all so predictable, even the comments here.
- chzblck 7mo ago
  because its open source.
  - miroljub 7mo ago
    A license doesn't matter if the perpetrator doesn't comply with it.
  - elashri 7mo ago
    Open source licence requires attribution which obviously it is not done in this case.
    - iknowstuff 7mo ago
      No it doesn’t? Depends on the license
      - elashri 7mo ago
        I doubt that there is any open source license that don't require attribution but we are talking about a specific case and the license require it [1] [1] https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2.5/blob/main/LICENSE https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2.5/blob/main/LICENS...
  - thefounder 7mo ago
    Like licenses are worth anything in the AI world…
PUSH_AX 7mo ago
> There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days These days? Almost every tech offering in existence is 1000+ OSS dependencies gaffer taped together with a sprinkling of business logic. Cursor isn't a shocking bit of software to pay for, its investment however...
simplyluke 7mo ago
> a 50 person team just beat Anthropic How does this blow that narrative up? A 50 person team likely broke a license to have a product that's competitive on output at a fraction of the costs of one of the most well capitalized companies on the planet. Claude code and anthropic are certainly the darlings of the space today, but to me this just reinforces the idea that their moat is razor thin on the model front, even compared to OSS that can be run on independent hardware. The application layer play is also suspect to me. In the medium to long term I _want_ tools that'll let me run whatever models I want vs being tied to an expensive, proprietary, and singular provider. For personal work I care about costs, and eventually my employer will care both about costs _and_ enterprise features/governance that a company like Anysphere is extremely well positioned to provide. More and more, I see the future of the application layer being model agnostic, most enterprises hosting models on their own cloud for data security concerns, and the models being fully commoditized.
- torginus 7mo ago
  Considering how AI companies incestously RL on each other's models, I would not be surprised if any number of behavioral patterns and (claims to be ChatGPT/Claude/Deepseek or whatever) just popped up on new models constantly. I would also not rule out that since K2 is an 1T model, this is a distill, as I don't think they're serving expensive models just like that, which would not be a licensing violation?.
  - simplyluke 7mo ago
    There's a now-deleted tweet from a Kimi dev claiming that they verified the tokenizier was the same, which would imply it going at least beyond RL. Could still be a distill I think.
aimarketintel 7mo ago
[flagged]
deleted 7mo ago
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faangguyindia 7mo ago
It just means Kursor is sharing data with Chinese llm which enables them to improve their LLM by training on outputs and input of all data which cursor collects. It's a two way street.
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  No, they self host the Chinese open source LLMs, not use their APIs.

by mohsen1 7mo ago

NitpickLawyer 7mo ago

> packaging open source and reselling it. It's a bit more than that. They have plenty of data to inform any finetunes they make. I don't know how much of a moat it will turn out to be in practice, but it's something. There's a reason every big provider made their own coding harness.

pbowyer 7mo ago
Can anyone enlighten me how having a coding harness when for most customers you say "we won't train on your code" helps you do RL? What's the data that they rely on? Is it the prompts and their responses?
- rubymamis 7mo ago
  I guess they rely on many people not toggling privacy-mode on?
- victorbjorklund 7mo ago
  I doubt the majority does that. I bet the majority is using the defaults.
- __mharrison__ 7mo ago
  Does "code" include the prompt? Seems like the prompts would be the goldmines. Hook those up to rl an open weight model...
- doctorpangloss 7mo ago
  It doesn't matter what your privacy setting is, with any savvy vendor. Your data is used to train by paraphrasing it, and the paraphrasing makes it impossible to prove it was your data (it is stored at rest paraphrased). Of course the paraphrasing stores all the salient information, like your goals and guidance to the bot to the answer, even if it has no PII.
  - happyopossum 7mo ago
    That's an interesting accusation there! You're essentially accusing every "savvy vendor" of large-scale fraud... DOn't suppose you'd have any actual citations or evidence to back that up?
- josho 7mo ago
  The meta data is useful. Eg, When a prompt had a bad result and was edited, or had lots of back and forth to correct tool usage that information can be distilled and used to improve models. And now imagine if you are focused on this for weeks you can likely come up with other ideas to leverage the metadata to improve model performance.

rubymamis 7mo ago

Do you know what Qwen model Composer 1.5 used?

rvz 7mo ago

> Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen... We know Composer 2 is Kimi K2.5 from that tweet. Where is the evidence for Composer 1 being based on Qwen? > So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah. In this case, it will be the other way round: Anthropic will see Cursor as a competitor AI lab using open weight models for Composor 2 (actually Kimi K2.5) which was allegedly distilled from Opus 4.6, and would be enough for Anthropic to cut off Cursor from using any of models. That's where it is going.

dmix 7mo ago

Cursor’s integration is much deeper than just plugging an LLM into VSCode That said I have a feeling both VSCode and Claude code will catch up to their integration. But neither comes close yet (I say that as someone who mainly uses Claude Code).

bearjaws 7mo ago
As a command line junkie, what is the main thing Claude Code needs to catch up with cursor? I haven't dove into using a LLM in my editor, so I am less familiar with workflows there.
- lubujackson 7mo ago
  I use both pretty heavily. Cursor has an "Ask" mode that is useful when I don't want it to touch files or ask a non-sequitur. Claude may have an easy way to do this, but I haven't seeked it. Cursor also has an interesting Debug mode that actively adds specific debug logging logic to your code, runs through several hypotheses in a loop to narrow down the cause, then cleans up the logging. It can be super useful. Finally, when making peecise changes I can select a function, hit cmd-L and add certain ljnes of code to the context. Hard to do that in Claude. Cursor tends to be much faster for quicker, more precise work in general, and rarely goes "searching through the codebase" for things. Most importantly, I'm cheap. a If I leave Cursor on Auto I can use it full time, 8 hours a day, and never go past the $20 monthly charge. Yes, it is probably just using free models but they are quite decent now, quick and great for inline work.
  - nsingh2 7mo ago
    The majority of Ask/Debug mode can be reproduced using skills. For copying code references, if you're using VS Code, you can look at plugins like [1], or even make your own. Cursor's auto mode is flaky because you don't know which model they're routing you to, and it could be a smaller, worse model. It's hard to see why paying a middleman for access to models would be cheaper than going directly to the model providers. I was a heavy Cursor user, and I've completely switched to Codex CLI or Claude Code. I don't have to deal with an older, potentially buggier version of VS Code, and I also have the option of not using VS Code at all. One nice thing about Cursor is its code and documentation embedding. I don't know how much code embedding really helps, but documentation embedding is useful. [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ezforo.copy-relative-path-and-line-numbers https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ezforo.c...

miroljub 7mo ago

> Cursor Composer 1 was Qwen and this is Kimi. IDE is based on VSCode. The entire company is build on packaging open source and reselling it. The question is, where's the outrage? Why are there no headlines "USA steals Chinese tech?" "All USA can do is make a cheap copy of Chinese SOTA models". > So funny to see Twitter go wild saying "a 50 person team just beat Anthropic" blah blah. Well, if it's an American company, then it's a noble underdog story. When Chinese do it, they are thieves leeching on the US tech investment. It's all so predictable, even the comments here.

chzblck 7mo ago
because its open source.
- miroljub 7mo ago
  A license doesn't matter if the perpetrator doesn't comply with it.
- elashri 7mo ago
  Open source licence requires attribution which obviously it is not done in this case.
  - iknowstuff 7mo ago
    No it doesn’t? Depends on the license
    - elashri 7mo ago
      I doubt that there is any open source license that don't require attribution but we are talking about a specific case and the license require it [1] [1] https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2.5/blob/main/LICENSE https://huggingface.co/moonshotai/Kimi-K2.5/blob/main/LICENS...
- thefounder 7mo ago
  Like licenses are worth anything in the AI world…

PUSH_AX 7mo ago

> There is so much money to be made repackaging open source these days These days? Almost every tech offering in existence is 1000+ OSS dependencies gaffer taped together with a sprinkling of business logic. Cursor isn't a shocking bit of software to pay for, its investment however...

simplyluke 7mo ago

> a 50 person team just beat Anthropic How does this blow that narrative up? A 50 person team likely broke a license to have a product that's competitive on output at a fraction of the costs of one of the most well capitalized companies on the planet. Claude code and anthropic are certainly the darlings of the space today, but to me this just reinforces the idea that their moat is razor thin on the model front, even compared to OSS that can be run on independent hardware. The application layer play is also suspect to me. In the medium to long term I _want_ tools that'll let me run whatever models I want vs being tied to an expensive, proprietary, and singular provider. For personal work I care about costs, and eventually my employer will care both about costs _and_ enterprise features/governance that a company like Anysphere is extremely well positioned to provide. More and more, I see the future of the application layer being model agnostic, most enterprises hosting models on their own cloud for data security concerns, and the models being fully commoditized.

torginus 7mo ago
Considering how AI companies incestously RL on each other's models, I would not be surprised if any number of behavioral patterns and (claims to be ChatGPT/Claude/Deepseek or whatever) just popped up on new models constantly. I would also not rule out that since K2 is an 1T model, this is a distill, as I don't think they're serving expensive models just like that, which would not be a licensing violation?.
- simplyluke 7mo ago
  There's a now-deleted tweet from a Kimi dev claiming that they verified the tokenizier was the same, which would imply it going at least beyond RL. Could still be a distill I think.

aimarketintel 7mo ago

[flagged]

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]

faangguyindia 7mo ago

It just means Kursor is sharing data with Chinese llm which enables them to improve their LLM by training on outputs and input of all data which cursor collects. It's a two way street.

satvikpendem 7mo ago
No, they self host the Chinese open source LLMs, not use their APIs.