4 ms·

My experience lately has been similar. Most things work well now. But, I think the article has some valid points about how long it's taken to get even this far

My experience lately has been similar. Most things work well now. But, I think the article has some valid points about how long it's taken to get even this far. And it just kinda sucks that some things are still broken or don't have alternatives (the #1 thing I miss right now is Barrier (Synergy) for using my macbook from my linux desktop). HDR gaming on linux is possible thanks to Valve but it's still nowhere near as simple as plugging in your HDR display and toggling one switch. And it's been rough getting here, and it seems like there are still some things that are slow and hard to get right. I'm not a display protocol dev, so I don't really have educated opinions about the protocol. But I know it's been a rough transition relative to other projects I've adopted even when there was major pushback (systemd springs to mind).

martinald 7mo ago
No I do get that, it's definitely been a slow and painful migration. But just having a very insecure X11 "forever" with no fractional font scaling wasn't a long term plan either imo.
saghm 7mo ago
> the #1 thing I miss right now is Barrier (Synergy) for using my macbook from my linux desktop) It's admittedly tough to keep up with all of the forks that have happened, but the current iteration, Input Leap, has worked for this for me for years now https://github.com/input-leap/input-leap https://github.com/input-leap/input-leap
- jpetso 7mo ago
  That's not even the most recent iteration, there's also Deskflow now which is maintained by the main Synergy developer and a very active independent dev. Works fine on Wayland afaik. Also has a wiki page with the history of all the forks! https://github.com/deskflow/deskflow https://github.com/deskflow/deskflow
  - saghm 7mo ago
    Unbelievable! Thank you, I guess I'll have to see if I should switch over to that one now
- andrewstuart2 7mo ago
  I tried that recently and it didn't seem to work with my particular setup (Sway window manager). Or at least, the tray app won't open any windows to see if it's enabled/disabled/configured properly.
MBCook 7mo ago
Does HDR work anywhere other than Mac? I’ve heard reports of issues on Windows were you often have to switch between HDR and non-HDR modes to get the colors or brightness to appear correctly. Something about tone mapping I think? I don’t know if that’s fixed in newer versions or if it has to do with specific drivers or what. But it didn’t sound like it worked very well.
MBCook 7mo ago
The amount of time it’s taken to get here I think is THE fair criticism. They had an absolute ton of work to do to design it and get it all running. It was never going to be fast. And it’s not like they could order any of the desktop environments to do what they want. There have always seemed to have been commenters who were annoyed it didn’t come practically done with every feature from X plus 30 more from the day of announcements. But, we’re here now.
- NetMageSCW 7mo ago
  Based on the article, here is still a decade in the future and that is the main complaint.
Cyph0n 7mo ago
If the Python 2 to 3 migration took a decade, isn’t it reasonable for a display server migration to take even more time to stabilize? Especially given: (1) The (relatively) fragmented reality of Linux distros and desktop managers. I am sure that such a migration could have been executed faster had the Linux desktop world been more centralized like Windows or macOS. (2) The age and maturity of X11
- Blikkentrekker 7mo ago
  The python 2 to 3 situation was a similar colossal mistake of honestly incompetent developers who really enjoy programming in their free time who don't understand that time is money for most people. By comparison, Rust with its edition system understands this. But this is the major issue. They don't understand that even if Wayland had feature-parity with X11. The simple fact that it works differently means that if I am to migrate I would have to rewrite a tonne of scripts that hook into X11 that just organically grew over time that I've now become dependent on for my workflow. It has to be substantially better and have killer features for me to switch and yes, fractional scaling per-monitor is that killer feature for many, but not for me, and the simple fact that XMonad runs on X11 and not on Wayland is a killer feature for others.
  - kelipso 7mo ago
    > The python 2 to 3 situation was a similar colossal mistake of honestly incompetent developers who really enjoy programming in their free time who don't understand that time is money for most people. It’s been years but even then, this sincerely cannot be repeated enough.
  - rzerowan 7mo ago
    Not to mention that p3 on its own was prettymuch functional and p2 quite stable and the major issue was migrating/porting all the legacy over to p3 .Hence bridges like six and 2-to-3 that at least attempted to smooth the transition over by allowing bot to coexist for a time. With wayland they seem not to be even entertaing this optionality - with wayland itself being not yet feature complete to standalone.And the attempts to bridge like xwayland coming way after the fact and pushing a oneway path with no coexisting situation. As a result introducinga whole lot of friction and surprises in UI functionality. So yeah at a time when the presentation layer should be a boring afterthough, it is too timeconsuming in part of a Linux setup and daily usage.

martinald 7mo ago

No I do get that, it's definitely been a slow and painful migration. But just having a very insecure X11 "forever" with no fractional font scaling wasn't a long term plan either imo.

saghm 7mo ago

> the #1 thing I miss right now is Barrier (Synergy) for using my macbook from my linux desktop) It's admittedly tough to keep up with all of the forks that have happened, but the current iteration, Input Leap, has worked for this for me for years now https://github.com/input-leap/input-leap https://github.com/input-leap/input-leap

jpetso 7mo ago
That's not even the most recent iteration, there's also Deskflow now which is maintained by the main Synergy developer and a very active independent dev. Works fine on Wayland afaik. Also has a wiki page with the history of all the forks! https://github.com/deskflow/deskflow https://github.com/deskflow/deskflow
- saghm 7mo ago
  Unbelievable! Thank you, I guess I'll have to see if I should switch over to that one now
andrewstuart2 7mo ago
I tried that recently and it didn't seem to work with my particular setup (Sway window manager). Or at least, the tray app won't open any windows to see if it's enabled/disabled/configured properly.

MBCook 7mo ago

Does HDR work anywhere other than Mac? I’ve heard reports of issues on Windows were you often have to switch between HDR and non-HDR modes to get the colors or brightness to appear correctly. Something about tone mapping I think? I don’t know if that’s fixed in newer versions or if it has to do with specific drivers or what. But it didn’t sound like it worked very well.

MBCook 7mo ago

The amount of time it’s taken to get here I think is THE fair criticism. They had an absolute ton of work to do to design it and get it all running. It was never going to be fast. And it’s not like they could order any of the desktop environments to do what they want. There have always seemed to have been commenters who were annoyed it didn’t come practically done with every feature from X plus 30 more from the day of announcements. But, we’re here now.

NetMageSCW 7mo ago
Based on the article, here is still a decade in the future and that is the main complaint.

Cyph0n 7mo ago

If the Python 2 to 3 migration took a decade, isn’t it reasonable for a display server migration to take even more time to stabilize? Especially given: (1) The (relatively) fragmented reality of Linux distros and desktop managers. I am sure that such a migration could have been executed faster had the Linux desktop world been more centralized like Windows or macOS. (2) The age and maturity of X11

Blikkentrekker 7mo ago
The python 2 to 3 situation was a similar colossal mistake of honestly incompetent developers who really enjoy programming in their free time who don't understand that time is money for most people. By comparison, Rust with its edition system understands this. But this is the major issue. They don't understand that even if Wayland had feature-parity with X11. The simple fact that it works differently means that if I am to migrate I would have to rewrite a tonne of scripts that hook into X11 that just organically grew over time that I've now become dependent on for my workflow. It has to be substantially better and have killer features for me to switch and yes, fractional scaling per-monitor is that killer feature for many, but not for me, and the simple fact that XMonad runs on X11 and not on Wayland is a killer feature for others.
- kelipso 7mo ago
  > The python 2 to 3 situation was a similar colossal mistake of honestly incompetent developers who really enjoy programming in their free time who don't understand that time is money for most people. It’s been years but even then, this sincerely cannot be repeated enough.
- rzerowan 7mo ago
  Not to mention that p3 on its own was prettymuch functional and p2 quite stable and the major issue was migrating/porting all the legacy over to p3 .Hence bridges like six and 2-to-3 that at least attempted to smooth the transition over by allowing bot to coexist for a time. With wayland they seem not to be even entertaing this optionality - with wayland itself being not yet feature complete to standalone.And the attempts to bridge like xwayland coming way after the fact and pushing a oneway path with no coexisting situation. As a result introducinga whole lot of friction and surprises in UI functionality. So yeah at a time when the presentation layer should be a boring afterthough, it is too timeconsuming in part of a Linux setup and daily usage.