4 ms·

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is s

by bityard 7mo ago

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably get an iPhone next, but I do sincerely hope this hastens progress on a real "Linux phone" for the rest of us. Plasma Mobile (https://plasma-mobile.org https://plasma-mobile.org) looks very nice indeed. I'll be more than happy to contribute to development and funding.

mikescandy 7mo ago
If I understand correctly, the 24 hour wait is a one off. After the sideloading feature is enabled, it should stay on.
kykat 7mo ago
24-hour wait is a one time setup, I'd imagine that fdroid will keep working as usual after this super hidden don't enable me option is enabled.
MishaalRahman 7mo ago
If it helps, the 24-hour wait is a one-time process. You do it once, click the toggle to allow installing unregistered apps indefinitely, and then install whatever you want. You can even turn off developer options afterwards, per my understanding, and it won't impact your ability to install unregistered apps.
- Acrobatic_Road 7mo ago
  For now.
- applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
  That does not help. That is a fundamentally fucking insane limitation that will completely destroy any developer's ability to develop without getting approval from Google. Regardless of my feelings of the annoyance of going through this process myself, 90% of users simply will not go through this process to install apps, killing any potential userbase. Google has no goddamn right to be the sole dictator of who is allowed to develop software for the largest platform in the world, to decide who is allowed to have a career in mobile software development and who is not, and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself for accepting a paycheck to defend this. I hope your shitty company and Apple both get their comeuppance in court for these monopolistic practices, and may we some day get a future where anyone is free to develop software without approval of a central police corp.
- datacruncher01 7mo ago
  It does not help. This is friction imposed to reduce and eliminate sideloading in the name of safety. I own my device, I choose the software running on it. Create friction points and I will chose another platform to execute my software.
- 4k93n2 7mo ago
  different strokes i suppose. normally i like being able to use something the same day i buy it 95% of the apps i use are ''side loaded''. that includes a web browser, file browser, all the fossify apps for things like messaging, phone/contacts -- so the phone would be basically be a paperweight until that restriction is removed
- 12345hn6789 7mo ago
  Is the next prioritized epic to disable 24 hour wait for undesirable apks?
NoahZuniga 7mo ago
Probably f droid will become an official app store recognized by Google, and then you won't have to go through this flow to install f droid or its apps.
- Aachen 7mo ago
  Have you read their blog on the topic? It's the end of the project
- Zak 7mo ago
  As I understand it, that would not bypass Google's requirement that the developer of each app be verified by Google.
armadyl 7mo ago
GrapheneOS phones are still an option, it’s unaffected by these rules.
- egeres 7mo ago
  They have terrible support for banking apps and any app that needs play integrity
  - armadyl 7mo ago
    And what kind of support do you think a Linux phone will have? While also having trash tier security. I don’t see that as an issue (for Americans at least since most banks here don’t use NFC/wallets in their apps), just use the web browser to access your bank. Also GrapheneOS has in my experience decent banking app support outside of a handful of apps (including, ironically, my main bank which disabled GrapheneOS support a week or two ago). There is a maintained list of working apps that you can see for yourself: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
  - jjulius 7mo ago
    Does/do your bank/s absolutely always require you to use an app? Is there a desktop/website that you can use? Do they have a brick and mortar location?
    - utopiah 7mo ago
      Typically the website requires you to use the mobile app as 2FA. Typically also there are less and less brick and mortar locations.
      - jjulius 7mo ago
        Help me follow. Which bank, specifically, requires an app for the purpose of 2FA? Further, what is the 2FA process for logging in to the app itself - wouldn't you need a second form of authentication that's not the app in that instance? If so, is that form of 2FA not allowed when logging in via desktop/laptop? I inquire because I use multiple different banks, CC providers and financial services, but have never once been required to use an app, even with "mobile" banks like Simple or One.
fluidcruft 7mo ago
Good luck installing things from anywhere you want on an iPhone.
- sparky_z 7mo ago
  You're missing the point. I only use an Android because it lets me install whatever software I want. If that's no longer an option, then I'll pick based on other criteria, and then the iPhone beats the Android phone every time.
TheDong 7mo ago
Switching to an iPhone will put you in an even worse walled garden that respects you even less. Even simple things like setting your default navigation app in iOS are gated behind moving to the EU.
- thatllbe99dot99 7mo ago
  True, but the point is, once you've sucked it up and given up, you may as well get other benefits back in exchange for turning tail. And the iPhone is unfortunately THE primary platform most applications develop for. Personally, I am willing to just ditch the Android, get an iPhone as a "contact- and banking-only" device, and drag with me some sort of small computer everywhere. I've already dragged a linux retroconsole to a large number of places and have watched videos and listened to music and even edited code through it. May as well do the obvious and call it quits on phones-for-non-phone purposes entirely if phones will be so dedicated to being shitboxes.
  - noisy_boy 7mo ago
    I also had a similar thought after these announcements. The main issue is seamless synching that syncthing provides between Linux and Android. There are alternatives like Mobius Sync etc but what I've heard is that they do app-specific sync, not like e.g., sync all my files in this folder X in Linux to a folder Y on iPhone. I'm not an iPhone user but this has always been the main hurdle for me to switch over despite the increasingly locking down of Android.
    - edg5000 7mo ago
      For files I use the open source Material Files, which supports SFTP servers. So I just have a little file server. For calendar, because Google doesn't reliably support background services, it's best to use a calendar app with builtin caldav sync. For carddav, I use a background sync app though (davx). Super lame that this is not built into android, not even into lineage. You'd think someone would implement native caldav/carddav sync? Maybe this is my calling haha.
Flere-Imsaho 7mo ago
What I'm about to say is probably going to be contraversial: but I think this is (long term) a good thing for opensource/freedom. The whole idea of 'apps' on a device that sits in your pocket and has access to a whole range of personal information was from the start, a bad idea. We have seen countless cases of 'verified apps' from the Playstore which hoover up all your personal data without your consent. I believe Steve Job's original plan for the iPhone was for apps to be web-based. This is good as web browsers run all the potentially dangerous code within a sandbox, with very restricted access to the host system's resources (storage, cameras, etc). Web technology has come a long way and even allows for GPU accelerated content to be used, and it's only getting better. Phones, by their nature, are always internet connected (obviously there are instances where that isn't the case)...so if 90% of my apps are actually just web apps then that's fine. The opensource aspect of this should be: I build and run my own infrastructure (on cloud servers or my own servers) that serves up the web apps. Sure, this isn't something that 'normal' people would do...but they aren't side loading apps anyway. The web is decentralised, as long as we choose it to be. We need to take advantage of this property.

by bityard 7mo ago

mikescandy 7mo ago

If I understand correctly, the 24 hour wait is a one off. After the sideloading feature is enabled, it should stay on.

kykat 7mo ago

24-hour wait is a one time setup, I'd imagine that fdroid will keep working as usual after this super hidden don't enable me option is enabled.

MishaalRahman 7mo ago

If it helps, the 24-hour wait is a one-time process. You do it once, click the toggle to allow installing unregistered apps indefinitely, and then install whatever you want. You can even turn off developer options afterwards, per my understanding, and it won't impact your ability to install unregistered apps.

Acrobatic_Road 7mo ago
For now.
applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
That does not help. That is a fundamentally fucking insane limitation that will completely destroy any developer's ability to develop without getting approval from Google. Regardless of my feelings of the annoyance of going through this process myself, 90% of users simply will not go through this process to install apps, killing any potential userbase. Google has no goddamn right to be the sole dictator of who is allowed to develop software for the largest platform in the world, to decide who is allowed to have a career in mobile software development and who is not, and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself for accepting a paycheck to defend this. I hope your shitty company and Apple both get their comeuppance in court for these monopolistic practices, and may we some day get a future where anyone is free to develop software without approval of a central police corp.
datacruncher01 7mo ago
It does not help. This is friction imposed to reduce and eliminate sideloading in the name of safety. I own my device, I choose the software running on it. Create friction points and I will chose another platform to execute my software.
4k93n2 7mo ago
different strokes i suppose. normally i like being able to use something the same day i buy it 95% of the apps i use are ''side loaded''. that includes a web browser, file browser, all the fossify apps for things like messaging, phone/contacts -- so the phone would be basically be a paperweight until that restriction is removed
12345hn6789 7mo ago
Is the next prioritized epic to disable 24 hour wait for undesirable apks?

NoahZuniga 7mo ago

Probably f droid will become an official app store recognized by Google, and then you won't have to go through this flow to install f droid or its apps.

Aachen 7mo ago
Have you read their blog on the topic? It's the end of the project
Zak 7mo ago
As I understand it, that would not bypass Google's requirement that the developer of each app be verified by Google.

armadyl 7mo ago

GrapheneOS phones are still an option, it’s unaffected by these rules.

egeres 7mo ago
They have terrible support for banking apps and any app that needs play integrity
- armadyl 7mo ago
  And what kind of support do you think a Linux phone will have? While also having trash tier security. I don’t see that as an issue (for Americans at least since most banks here don’t use NFC/wallets in their apps), just use the web browser to access your bank. Also GrapheneOS has in my experience decent banking app support outside of a handful of apps (including, ironically, my main bank which disabled GrapheneOS support a week or two ago). There is a maintained list of working apps that you can see for yourself: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
- jjulius 7mo ago
  Does/do your bank/s absolutely always require you to use an app? Is there a desktop/website that you can use? Do they have a brick and mortar location?
  - utopiah 7mo ago
    Typically the website requires you to use the mobile app as 2FA. Typically also there are less and less brick and mortar locations.
    - jjulius 7mo ago
      Help me follow. Which bank, specifically, requires an app for the purpose of 2FA? Further, what is the 2FA process for logging in to the app itself - wouldn't you need a second form of authentication that's not the app in that instance? If so, is that form of 2FA not allowed when logging in via desktop/laptop? I inquire because I use multiple different banks, CC providers and financial services, but have never once been required to use an app, even with "mobile" banks like Simple or One.

fluidcruft 7mo ago

Good luck installing things from anywhere you want on an iPhone.

sparky_z 7mo ago
You're missing the point. I only use an Android because it lets me install whatever software I want. If that's no longer an option, then I'll pick based on other criteria, and then the iPhone beats the Android phone every time.

TheDong 7mo ago

Switching to an iPhone will put you in an even worse walled garden that respects you even less. Even simple things like setting your default navigation app in iOS are gated behind moving to the EU.

thatllbe99dot99 7mo ago
True, but the point is, once you've sucked it up and given up, you may as well get other benefits back in exchange for turning tail. And the iPhone is unfortunately THE primary platform most applications develop for. Personally, I am willing to just ditch the Android, get an iPhone as a "contact- and banking-only" device, and drag with me some sort of small computer everywhere. I've already dragged a linux retroconsole to a large number of places and have watched videos and listened to music and even edited code through it. May as well do the obvious and call it quits on phones-for-non-phone purposes entirely if phones will be so dedicated to being shitboxes.
- noisy_boy 7mo ago
  I also had a similar thought after these announcements. The main issue is seamless synching that syncthing provides between Linux and Android. There are alternatives like Mobius Sync etc but what I've heard is that they do app-specific sync, not like e.g., sync all my files in this folder X in Linux to a folder Y on iPhone. I'm not an iPhone user but this has always been the main hurdle for me to switch over despite the increasingly locking down of Android.
  - edg5000 7mo ago
    For files I use the open source Material Files, which supports SFTP servers. So I just have a little file server. For calendar, because Google doesn't reliably support background services, it's best to use a calendar app with builtin caldav sync. For carddav, I use a background sync app though (davx). Super lame that this is not built into android, not even into lineage. You'd think someone would implement native caldav/carddav sync? Maybe this is my calling haha.

Flere-Imsaho 7mo ago

What I'm about to say is probably going to be contraversial: but I think this is (long term) a good thing for opensource/freedom. The whole idea of 'apps' on a device that sits in your pocket and has access to a whole range of personal information was from the start, a bad idea. We have seen countless cases of 'verified apps' from the Playstore which hoover up all your personal data without your consent. I believe Steve Job's original plan for the iPhone was for apps to be web-based. This is good as web browsers run all the potentially dangerous code within a sandbox, with very restricted access to the host system's resources (storage, cameras, etc). Web technology has come a long way and even allows for GPU accelerated content to be used, and it's only getting better. Phones, by their nature, are always internet connected (obviously there are instances where that isn't the case)...so if 90% of my apps are actually just web apps then that's fine. The opensource aspect of this should be: I build and run my own infrastructure (on cloud servers or my own servers) that serves up the web apps. Sure, this isn't something that 'normal' people would do...but they aren't side loading apps anyway. The web is decentralised, as long as we choose it to be. We need to take advantage of this property.