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> What power has the US ceded? Before this, we (large multinational infra company) were happily using AWS, microsoft and a bunch of other US based companies.

> What power has the US ceded? Before this, we (large multinational infra company) were happily using AWS, microsoft and a bunch of other US based companies. Now we are beginning the migration away, not because its cheaper or better, but because we just don't think that we can trust the contracts we have with them any more. This isn't a sudden thing, we are not going to do it over night. But we are not renewing multi-million dollar contracts in the coming years for stuff that would have been a no brainer last year.

traceroute66 7mo ago
> not because its cheaper or better Actually, in a number of cases EU cloud is cheaper and better. In terms of "better", spec wise it is not uncommon to get more bang for your buck in the EU cloud, especially around compute. In terms of "cheaper", that too. AWS, Azure etc. will happily sit there all day nickle and diming you through obscure pricing structures with all sorts of small-print. Good luck, for example, figuring out if you're going to go over your "provisioned IOPS-month" on AWS EBS, whatever the hell that is. And have fun with all the nickle-and-diming on AWS S3. Meanwhile on EU providers a lot of stuff is free that the US providers nickle and dime you for, and the stuff that is charged is done in a manner where you actually CAN forecast your spend. And then of course there is the real EU sovereignty. Not the fake US-cloud-in-Europe which despite what the US providers salesdroids try to tell you is still subject to CLOUD, PATRIOT and everything else.
ericmay 7mo ago
It’s interesting how these conversations always start and end with “my company isn’t buying XYZ American cloud provider services” while ignoring other incredibly important products and services that you can’t or are unwilling to boycott. Are you turning in your MacBook Pro and iPhone, or are you putting a bumper sticker on it saying you bought it before you knew America was crazy? Similarly, while it's great to take a principled stand here (it's yet again interesting how it's always a principled stand against American companies but never others), while you are busy spending time and money migrating away from AWS to a competing product that has worse features and is more expensive as you said, you should hope your competitors are too because if not, they're going to be delivering features faster and more cheaply. Something worth thinking about there. I don't think Microsoft losing some European contracts is an example of the US ceding power.
- iso1631 7mo ago
  Macbooks are built in China. Personally I have a Lenovo laptop (China) running Ubuntu (UK), on an LG monitor (Korea) with a logitech (Switzerland) mouse on an Ikea (Denmark) desk connected to a Mikrotik (Latvia) router.
  - ericmay 7mo ago
    I guess it's global supply chains when it's convenient for your argument, but not when it's inconvenient? Does Denmark build all the Ikea furniture? Who do you think designs the MacBook, chipsets, and more? Who designs and builds the semiconductors for your Lenovo laptop?
    - jacquesm 7mo ago
      > Does Denmark build all the Ikea furniture? That would be so funny if it wasn't clear that you are serious. > Who do you think designs the MacBook, chipsets, and more? Who designs and builds the semiconductors for your Lenovo laptop? Why don't you tell us?
      - ericmay 7mo ago
        > That would be so funny if it wasn't clear that you are serious. Sure ok - tell me what I'm missing. > Why don't you tell us? Are you unaware that Apple designs the MacBook and A/M series chips?
        jacquesm 7mo ago
        Are you unaware that Ikea is Swedish and that the ARM comes from a long line of UK products?
        ericmay 7mo ago
        > Ikea (Denmark) desk I was just going off what you wrote. I buy locally handmade furniture and haven't bought anything from Ikea since college. Anyway, Sweden doesn't build all of this stuff either. > ARM comes from a long line of UK products? Again, global supply chains when it's convenient for your argument.

traceroute66 7mo ago

> not because its cheaper or better Actually, in a number of cases EU cloud is cheaper and better. In terms of "better", spec wise it is not uncommon to get more bang for your buck in the EU cloud, especially around compute. In terms of "cheaper", that too. AWS, Azure etc. will happily sit there all day nickle and diming you through obscure pricing structures with all sorts of small-print. Good luck, for example, figuring out if you're going to go over your "provisioned IOPS-month" on AWS EBS, whatever the hell that is. And have fun with all the nickle-and-diming on AWS S3. Meanwhile on EU providers a lot of stuff is free that the US providers nickle and dime you for, and the stuff that is charged is done in a manner where you actually CAN forecast your spend. And then of course there is the real EU sovereignty. Not the fake US-cloud-in-Europe which despite what the US providers salesdroids try to tell you is still subject to CLOUD, PATRIOT and everything else.

ericmay 7mo ago

It’s interesting how these conversations always start and end with “my company isn’t buying XYZ American cloud provider services” while ignoring other incredibly important products and services that you can’t or are unwilling to boycott. Are you turning in your MacBook Pro and iPhone, or are you putting a bumper sticker on it saying you bought it before you knew America was crazy? Similarly, while it's great to take a principled stand here (it's yet again interesting how it's always a principled stand against American companies but never others), while you are busy spending time and money migrating away from AWS to a competing product that has worse features and is more expensive as you said, you should hope your competitors are too because if not, they're going to be delivering features faster and more cheaply. Something worth thinking about there. I don't think Microsoft losing some European contracts is an example of the US ceding power.

iso1631 7mo ago
Macbooks are built in China. Personally I have a Lenovo laptop (China) running Ubuntu (UK), on an LG monitor (Korea) with a logitech (Switzerland) mouse on an Ikea (Denmark) desk connected to a Mikrotik (Latvia) router.
- ericmay 7mo ago
  I guess it's global supply chains when it's convenient for your argument, but not when it's inconvenient? Does Denmark build all the Ikea furniture? Who do you think designs the MacBook, chipsets, and more? Who designs and builds the semiconductors for your Lenovo laptop?
  - jacquesm 7mo ago
    > Does Denmark build all the Ikea furniture? That would be so funny if it wasn't clear that you are serious. > Who do you think designs the MacBook, chipsets, and more? Who designs and builds the semiconductors for your Lenovo laptop? Why don't you tell us?
    - ericmay 7mo ago
      > That would be so funny if it wasn't clear that you are serious. Sure ok - tell me what I'm missing. > Why don't you tell us? Are you unaware that Apple designs the MacBook and A/M series chips?
      - jacquesm 7mo ago
        Are you unaware that Ikea is Swedish and that the ARM comes from a long line of UK products?
        ericmay 7mo ago
        > Ikea (Denmark) desk I was just going off what you wrote. I buy locally handmade furniture and haven't bought anything from Ikea since college. Anyway, Sweden doesn't build all of this stuff either. > ARM comes from a long line of UK products? Again, global supply chains when it's convenient for your argument.