4 ms·

Buddy, many of the people who are being served by Starlink are by no means "very" rural at all. If you get into "lives in a shack in the mountains", then sure I

by devin 7mo ago

Buddy, many of the people who are being served by Starlink are by no means "very" rural at all. If you get into "lives in a shack in the mountains", then sure I agree, but a HUGE number of people are barely outside of an immediate service area and have no access for one dumb reason or another. This is a demonstration of the failure of our country to do simple, pragmatic things that would benefit our citizens' lives. The "fix" was for some private company to launch things into orbit. It's an expensive fix to a simple problem.

TulliusCicero 7mo ago
Generally speaking, private companies want to make money by getting customers. Obviously there can be edge cases, but if there's profit to be made by hooking people up, they'll want to do it, and if private companies don't want to get more customers, you have to ask yourself some hard questions about why. I think we both know what's usually happening: people in an area who, as a whole, are rural enough and poor enough that the economics don't really pen out well. And I'm sure said corporations would be happy for the local government to pay the cost of running those lines out -- if that's not happening, ask yourself why those local governments don't want to pay for it either. Now if you want to say, "well I don't care if it scales badly, the federal government should just subsidize it until it works", that's your prerogative. But another option would be to encourage zoning and similar rules that impact how people live to change towards better scaling of infrastructure and services, so that spending on these kinds of things is more sustainable and fair.
- sysguest 7mo ago
  this people here don't understand how large USA is -- connecting every corner with copper/fiber, with all the intermediary networking devices means tax money...
  - devin 7mo ago
    Yes, it does mean tax money. Stop corporate welfare and bump the corporate tax rate back to a reasonable value.
    - nradov 7mo ago
      A better option would be to eliminate corporate income tax entirely, and raise taxes on the highest income employees and investors to make the change revenue neutral. Corporations waste a lot of resources on financial engineering to minimize tax liability, and that's a pure deadweight loss for the economy as a whole.
      - Tempest1981 7mo ago
        Savvy executives can also keep their income near 0 by borrowing against their stock holdings.
        nradov 7mo ago
        So what. They pay interest on that loan, and those interest payments eventually flow to the employees and investors of the lender. Who can be taxed.
  - hattmall 7mo ago
    Yes, but we've already done it, twice, and the benefits were quite significant.
  - heavyset_go 7mo ago
    We paid $900 million in taxes to subsidize rural access to Starlink in one year lol We also paid $42 billion in taxes for ISPs to roll out broadband access in a 2021 bill, and it hasn't connected a single person to the internet Before that, we paid $400 billion to ISPs to do the same thing with the same results
    - sysguest 7mo ago
      wtf was this a upfront lump-sum money? well even if I was the ISP, I'd just take the money and make the job "take forever"
dboreham 7mo ago
Generally agree. I live in a location that had (still has?) PSTN service, electricity, and natural gas services, but never got any kind of broadband besides the network I paid for and deployed myself, and subsequently of course StarLink. I think the issue isn't so much that people are demanding internet service in random places, more they're expecting internet service in the places you get all the other regular services.
shagie 7mo ago
My parents have Starlink. They live in an area surrounded by dairy farms. It's half a mile between mailboxes. The nearest town is 7 miles away (though only 3 as the crow flies - lots of hills between here and there). None of the neighbors have cable TV. You've got to either go into town or t'wards the highway 7 miles the other direction). Three years ago, the utility ran natural gas that far out. Prior to that, it was propane tanks (for the past 50 years) for heat in the winter. The state capital is 30 miles away... so its not that far away from civilization (this isn't Montana or the north woods of the upper midwest). When nano-cells came out for cellphones my father and I were the first in line at the store (that was 2010 if I recall correctly). It let the house be able to use a cell phone in the yard - before that it was the landline (and it was DSL for the nano-cell backhaul). In 2020 when school was remote, their grandkids were there. Prior to Starlink my father got a Firewalla (for network load balancing) and got a second DSL link (it was barely qualifying as high speed internet) so that it could support two zoom calls simultaneously (don't stream music or watch YouTube while the kids are on Zoom School). 5G cell coverage sounds great... but those hills I mentioned earlier? You can get cell phone coverage at the house without the nano-cell... if you get a ladder out and climb up to the top of the roof. So yes, to support the person I'm replying to - there are a lot of people who are 30 minutes outside of a city of appreciable size and are without wired high speed internet. In https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/location-summary/fixed?version=jun2025&zoom=9.60&vlon=-89.673778&vlat=43.243784&br=r&speed=100_20&tech=1_2_3_6_7 https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/location-summary/fixed?version=... the area that they live in has 0% for 100 Mbps for the majority of the northwest part of the county.
- grahamburger 7mo ago
  Looks like they may be getting fiber from Bertram Communications soon: https://maps.psc.wi.gov/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experience/?id=a09ed2f175184454a3c8785a3490f545&page=home&views=view_1 https://maps.psc.wi.gov/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experi... That or Starlink may be getting a wad of cash just to keep serving them, courtesy of this administration's NTIA.
  - shagie 7mo ago
    The area south of Highway 19 in Dane County to north of Highway 39 in Green county is still rather bare of awards.

by devin 7mo ago

TulliusCicero 7mo ago

Generally speaking, private companies want to make money by getting customers. Obviously there can be edge cases, but if there's profit to be made by hooking people up, they'll want to do it, and if private companies don't want to get more customers, you have to ask yourself some hard questions about why. I think we both know what's usually happening: people in an area who, as a whole, are rural enough and poor enough that the economics don't really pen out well. And I'm sure said corporations would be happy for the local government to pay the cost of running those lines out -- if that's not happening, ask yourself why those local governments don't want to pay for it either. Now if you want to say, "well I don't care if it scales badly, the federal government should just subsidize it until it works", that's your prerogative. But another option would be to encourage zoning and similar rules that impact how people live to change towards better scaling of infrastructure and services, so that spending on these kinds of things is more sustainable and fair.

sysguest 7mo ago
this people here don't understand how large USA is -- connecting every corner with copper/fiber, with all the intermediary networking devices means tax money...
- devin 7mo ago
  Yes, it does mean tax money. Stop corporate welfare and bump the corporate tax rate back to a reasonable value.
  - nradov 7mo ago
    A better option would be to eliminate corporate income tax entirely, and raise taxes on the highest income employees and investors to make the change revenue neutral. Corporations waste a lot of resources on financial engineering to minimize tax liability, and that's a pure deadweight loss for the economy as a whole.
    - Tempest1981 7mo ago
      Savvy executives can also keep their income near 0 by borrowing against their stock holdings.
      - nradov 7mo ago
        So what. They pay interest on that loan, and those interest payments eventually flow to the employees and investors of the lender. Who can be taxed.
- hattmall 7mo ago
  Yes, but we've already done it, twice, and the benefits were quite significant.
- heavyset_go 7mo ago
  We paid $900 million in taxes to subsidize rural access to Starlink in one year lol We also paid $42 billion in taxes for ISPs to roll out broadband access in a 2021 bill, and it hasn't connected a single person to the internet Before that, we paid $400 billion to ISPs to do the same thing with the same results
  - sysguest 7mo ago
    wtf was this a upfront lump-sum money? well even if I was the ISP, I'd just take the money and make the job "take forever"

dboreham 7mo ago

Generally agree. I live in a location that had (still has?) PSTN service, electricity, and natural gas services, but never got any kind of broadband besides the network I paid for and deployed myself, and subsequently of course StarLink. I think the issue isn't so much that people are demanding internet service in random places, more they're expecting internet service in the places you get all the other regular services.

shagie 7mo ago

My parents have Starlink. They live in an area surrounded by dairy farms. It's half a mile between mailboxes. The nearest town is 7 miles away (though only 3 as the crow flies - lots of hills between here and there). None of the neighbors have cable TV. You've got to either go into town or t'wards the highway 7 miles the other direction). Three years ago, the utility ran natural gas that far out. Prior to that, it was propane tanks (for the past 50 years) for heat in the winter. The state capital is 30 miles away... so its not that far away from civilization (this isn't Montana or the north woods of the upper midwest). When nano-cells came out for cellphones my father and I were the first in line at the store (that was 2010 if I recall correctly). It let the house be able to use a cell phone in the yard - before that it was the landline (and it was DSL for the nano-cell backhaul). In 2020 when school was remote, their grandkids were there. Prior to Starlink my father got a Firewalla (for network load balancing) and got a second DSL link (it was barely qualifying as high speed internet) so that it could support two zoom calls simultaneously (don't stream music or watch YouTube while the kids are on Zoom School). 5G cell coverage sounds great... but those hills I mentioned earlier? You can get cell phone coverage at the house without the nano-cell... if you get a ladder out and climb up to the top of the roof. So yes, to support the person I'm replying to - there are a lot of people who are 30 minutes outside of a city of appreciable size and are without wired high speed internet. In https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/location-summary/fixed?version=jun2025&zoom=9.60&vlon=-89.673778&vlat=43.243784&br=r&speed=100_20&tech=1_2_3_6_7 https://broadbandmap.fcc.gov/location-summary/fixed?version=... the area that they live in has 0% for 100 Mbps for the majority of the northwest part of the county.

grahamburger 7mo ago
Looks like they may be getting fiber from Bertram Communications soon: https://maps.psc.wi.gov/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experience/?id=a09ed2f175184454a3c8785a3490f545&page=home&views=view_1 https://maps.psc.wi.gov/portal/apps/experiencebuilder/experi... That or Starlink may be getting a wad of cash just to keep serving them, courtesy of this administration's NTIA.
- shagie 7mo ago
  The area south of Highway 19 in Dane County to north of Highway 39 in Green county is still rather bare of awards.