5 ms·

Startup lessons learned after two and a half years

65 points by dcancel 14y ago

Alan01252 14y ago
First I really enjoyed the post. I'm even more intrigued now though, you have 100 paying customers at a maximum of £12 pound a month, this is only £14,400 a year. Between two of you?!? How long can you continue to live like that? How do you live on that amount of money? Have you thought about raising the price?
- MicahWedemeyer 14y ago
  This was my first thought, too. I'd think you'd need to be charging around 10x that amount. Plus, that's ~14k in revenue, not profit. SaaS apps have great margins, but there's still some cost to servers and marketing. Still, going from 0 to 100 paying customers in a year is pretty great. The next year will surely be even better. Best of luck!
- bravoyankee 14y ago
  I'm willing to try the service for £12 pound, so the price is right for me. I don't think I'm willing to carry another monthly subscription for much more than that. What I'm try to say is that from my vantage point, the price seems right. A data point.
- philip_roberts 14y ago
  Hi Alan, There are a few extra factors at play here, - Our price is somewhat anchored by the accounting packages we integrate with, but we do intend to try and push that price up eventually (I should add: by adding more powerful features, rather than just hiking it). - We offer founder plans for people keen to support us (think kickstarter) which works out about 2-3 worth of lifetime value up front, and has really helped us month-to-month. - I was still working a full-time, then part-time, job for the first 10 months or so. - We were partly incubated for a year or so by my co-founder's web design company, which allowed him to keep drawing a salary from that and gave us an effectively free office. Although we are now both full-time on Float. - We've spent a number of our weekends this year helping start an incubation space (by literally knocking down walls) which has got us free office space while it's being finished off (http://techcube-ed.tumblr.com/ http://techcube-ed.tumblr.com/). - We have raised a tiny amount of money, which obviously helps. - We live in Scotland which I am sure has a much lower cost of living than London/the Valley. - I have a _very_ supportive wife who works full-time.
  - Alan01252 14y ago
    Thanks Philip, I find myself letting the fear factor of not having money completely control my life and actions. I am very impressed by anyone who's able to overcome this fear. Your story is truly inspiring, and I wish you the very best of luck!
    - philip_roberts 14y ago
      It's not been easy. It took me a long time to get up the courage to leave my job, and fear of running out of money still paralyses me from time to time. Fortunately my wife is amazingly supportive, and my cofounder is less paralysed by little details like running out of money than I am and helps me forge-ahead.
  - infinite8s 14y ago
    + lives in a country that provides universal medical care
    - philip_roberts 14y ago
      True! Didn't even think of that.
      - infinite8s 14y ago
        Although in the US, having a wife with a good fulltime job would ameliorate the unavailability of affordable healthcare for founders.
- ashray 14y ago
  I think this is just the start. They've figured out their stuff, got their product in good shape, got some paying customers. Obviously from here on, iterative improvement is a must but they'll probably be able to scale their marketing and hit more and more clients as they go. Maybe offer even more plans to bigger clients with more features, that kind of stuff. 100 customers = yes, people want this. Now it's onwards and upwards :)
  - philip_roberts 14y ago
    Exactly. The key challenges for us now are: - Expand to more platforms, to increase the total market we can hit. - Improve the product to make it easier for the general market to understand. We are hitting early adopter types pretty well, but the majority struggle because it's a complex problem/product. - Figure out how to scale the marketing (the really hard bit ;) )
vignesh_vs_in 14y ago
Its quiet a big feat that tht OP moved from writing first line of code to lauching a company in 10 months. Wonder how did he manage it? I have been writing code/Mobile apps for 2.5 years still scared to take the leap.
- philip_roberts 14y ago
  Just launch. Seriously what's the worst that can happen. I say that like it was easy, it clearly wasn't, but you just have to suck it up and try it.
  - vignesh_vs_in 14y ago
    I am finding it hard to figure out the right co-founder. All my coder pals are risk averse :(. I have made a decision to quit my day job on 31/03/2013 no matter what. will keep you guys updated on the journey.
    - philip_roberts 14y ago
      Somebody else just emailed me asking basically the same question, and looking for my advice. My immediate thoughts were: - Do you need a cofounder immediately, or can you just try and do less. I know that's easier said than done, but scale back your projects into what you think the most important pain/solution is and focus on that, and see if you can get some traction. It will be easier to convince someone else to join you if you can get some traction. - Similarly: don't look for people to take a big leap, break it into smaller steps. Do you know anyone who would do something for an evening a week. Or hack on something at the weekend. Treat it more as a fun side-project, and people might be more excited about getting involved. Then once they are in, and you have some momentum, try and grow the committment (that's basically what we did).
      - swastik 14y ago
        I agree with this. I'd try and learn the basics of coding, put together a prototype and get some initial feedback. It will be much better to seek a co-founder at this point, who can help you complete the product and launch it. It's not easy, and it is going to take time but that's probably the best way to go about it.
fabiandesimone 14y ago
I think you should really invest in your website. I did not know about Float before, but so it happens that I´m shopping for a financial/accounting/cash flow app and I got to be honest: Float might work and maybe is all I need but your site really does not convey the value it might provide me if I become a user (I´m refering to the home page, the tour page does a bit better but you could improve it by tweaking a few things) I suspect your metrics might have some key info relating to what I´m about to tell you: grab the whole tour page and include it below the Start your free trial in the home page. See if that helps your conversions. Good luck!
- goldfeld 14y ago
  That's just what I was about to say. Make the tour more accessible. Either what @fabiandesimone suggested or have a big type "take the tour!" appear on top of the laptop screen on hover, and then make the tour slide down the already existing screen shot (which is the one on the laptop as well as the first on the tour).
- philip_roberts 14y ago
  Hi Fabian, We are currently quite focused on our target marget of FreeAgent customers, and Float is not currently mass-market (yet) but you are right. We recently released a page, more like you are suggesting, for Xero customers here: http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero what do you think?
  - fabiandesimone 14y ago
    Your words: When you’re working on your product, you’ve got some beta testers, it looks shit but you’re making progress, and you’ve a huge list of things you want to do, it’s easy to put off marketing. “We’re not ready for loads of customers yet” “We’ve too much to do to be marketing” “Let’s wait till the product is great, then marketing will be easier” The truth is, marketing is really hard. It takes time to work, it can be hard to know when it is working, and you don’t see instant results so it doesn’t feel very productive. Getting started earlier, and doing a little as you go along is, I think, a much better strategy than waiting till you launch. It gives you time to learn about what works and what doesn’t, it let’s you learn about the process and get better at it, and it gives your marketing time to work. Market the hell out of the app man! EDIT: What I meant to say is that as you put it marketing is very hard (I know, that´s what I do) so don´t narrow it down. Go for it, right now!
philip_roberts 14y ago
Hi everyone, I didn't post this, but I am the author. Thanks for all the kind words on the post. As far as Float goes, it currently only works with www.freeagent.com, so if you are a FreeAgent user, feel free to sign up. I am (as we speak) working on integration with www.xero.com, and there's more detail on that here if you want to try the beta: http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero. All thoughts and feedback on either the post of the product are more than welcome :) Thanks! Phil
- kfk 14y ago
  Hi Phil, I am probably in a position similar to yours 2 years ago: I am working and learning to code on the side. Could I ask you how did you get the integration with xero and freeagent? I am working on an app too (vendors and orders management) and I keep wondering how to reach out potential customers.
  - philip_roberts 14y ago
    We are listed here: http://www.freeagent.com/developers/goodies http://www.freeagent.com/developers/goodies which drives some traffic our way. FreeAgent and our customers have mentioned us on twitter/blogged about us sporadically over the last couple of years. Don't just wait. We are still working on our Xero integration (I only really started on it last week), and I stuck up http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero so we could collect emails of people who wanted to try the beta, and we've got ~70 replies (mostly from accountants) by sharing it on twitter/facebook/linked in/Xero's support forums.

65 points by dcancel 14y ago

First I really enjoyed the post. I'm even more intrigued now though, you have 100 paying customers at a maximum of £12 pound a month, this is only £14,400 a year. Between two of you?!? How long can you continue to live like that? How do you live on that amount of money? Have you thought about raising the price?

MicahWedemeyer 14y ago
This was my first thought, too. I'd think you'd need to be charging around 10x that amount. Plus, that's ~14k in revenue, not profit. SaaS apps have great margins, but there's still some cost to servers and marketing. Still, going from 0 to 100 paying customers in a year is pretty great. The next year will surely be even better. Best of luck!
bravoyankee 14y ago
I'm willing to try the service for £12 pound, so the price is right for me. I don't think I'm willing to carry another monthly subscription for much more than that. What I'm try to say is that from my vantage point, the price seems right. A data point.
philip_roberts 14y ago
Hi Alan, There are a few extra factors at play here, - Our price is somewhat anchored by the accounting packages we integrate with, but we do intend to try and push that price up eventually (I should add: by adding more powerful features, rather than just hiking it). - We offer founder plans for people keen to support us (think kickstarter) which works out about 2-3 worth of lifetime value up front, and has really helped us month-to-month. - I was still working a full-time, then part-time, job for the first 10 months or so. - We were partly incubated for a year or so by my co-founder's web design company, which allowed him to keep drawing a salary from that and gave us an effectively free office. Although we are now both full-time on Float. - We've spent a number of our weekends this year helping start an incubation space (by literally knocking down walls) which has got us free office space while it's being finished off (http://techcube-ed.tumblr.com/ http://techcube-ed.tumblr.com/). - We have raised a tiny amount of money, which obviously helps. - We live in Scotland which I am sure has a much lower cost of living than London/the Valley. - I have a _very_ supportive wife who works full-time.
- Alan01252 14y ago
  Thanks Philip, I find myself letting the fear factor of not having money completely control my life and actions. I am very impressed by anyone who's able to overcome this fear. Your story is truly inspiring, and I wish you the very best of luck!
  - philip_roberts 14y ago
    It's not been easy. It took me a long time to get up the courage to leave my job, and fear of running out of money still paralyses me from time to time. Fortunately my wife is amazingly supportive, and my cofounder is less paralysed by little details like running out of money than I am and helps me forge-ahead.
- infinite8s 14y ago
  + lives in a country that provides universal medical care
  - philip_roberts 14y ago
    True! Didn't even think of that.
    - infinite8s 14y ago
      Although in the US, having a wife with a good fulltime job would ameliorate the unavailability of affordable healthcare for founders.
ashray 14y ago
I think this is just the start. They've figured out their stuff, got their product in good shape, got some paying customers. Obviously from here on, iterative improvement is a must but they'll probably be able to scale their marketing and hit more and more clients as they go. Maybe offer even more plans to bigger clients with more features, that kind of stuff. 100 customers = yes, people want this. Now it's onwards and upwards :)
- philip_roberts 14y ago
  Exactly. The key challenges for us now are: - Expand to more platforms, to increase the total market we can hit. - Improve the product to make it easier for the general market to understand. We are hitting early adopter types pretty well, but the majority struggle because it's a complex problem/product. - Figure out how to scale the marketing (the really hard bit ;) )

vignesh_vs_in 14y ago

Its quiet a big feat that tht OP moved from writing first line of code to lauching a company in 10 months. Wonder how did he manage it? I have been writing code/Mobile apps for 2.5 years still scared to take the leap.

philip_roberts 14y ago
Just launch. Seriously what's the worst that can happen. I say that like it was easy, it clearly wasn't, but you just have to suck it up and try it.
- vignesh_vs_in 14y ago
  I am finding it hard to figure out the right co-founder. All my coder pals are risk averse :(. I have made a decision to quit my day job on 31/03/2013 no matter what. will keep you guys updated on the journey.
  - philip_roberts 14y ago
    Somebody else just emailed me asking basically the same question, and looking for my advice. My immediate thoughts were: - Do you need a cofounder immediately, or can you just try and do less. I know that's easier said than done, but scale back your projects into what you think the most important pain/solution is and focus on that, and see if you can get some traction. It will be easier to convince someone else to join you if you can get some traction. - Similarly: don't look for people to take a big leap, break it into smaller steps. Do you know anyone who would do something for an evening a week. Or hack on something at the weekend. Treat it more as a fun side-project, and people might be more excited about getting involved. Then once they are in, and you have some momentum, try and grow the committment (that's basically what we did).
    - swastik 14y ago
      I agree with this. I'd try and learn the basics of coding, put together a prototype and get some initial feedback. It will be much better to seek a co-founder at this point, who can help you complete the product and launch it. It's not easy, and it is going to take time but that's probably the best way to go about it.

fabiandesimone 14y ago

I think you should really invest in your website. I did not know about Float before, but so it happens that I´m shopping for a financial/accounting/cash flow app and I got to be honest: Float might work and maybe is all I need but your site really does not convey the value it might provide me if I become a user (I´m refering to the home page, the tour page does a bit better but you could improve it by tweaking a few things) I suspect your metrics might have some key info relating to what I´m about to tell you: grab the whole tour page and include it below the Start your free trial in the home page. See if that helps your conversions. Good luck!

goldfeld 14y ago
That's just what I was about to say. Make the tour more accessible. Either what @fabiandesimone suggested or have a big type "take the tour!" appear on top of the laptop screen on hover, and then make the tour slide down the already existing screen shot (which is the one on the laptop as well as the first on the tour).
philip_roberts 14y ago
Hi Fabian, We are currently quite focused on our target marget of FreeAgent customers, and Float is not currently mass-market (yet) but you are right. We recently released a page, more like you are suggesting, for Xero customers here: http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero what do you think?
- fabiandesimone 14y ago
  Your words: When you’re working on your product, you’ve got some beta testers, it looks shit but you’re making progress, and you’ve a huge list of things you want to do, it’s easy to put off marketing. “We’re not ready for loads of customers yet” “We’ve too much to do to be marketing” “Let’s wait till the product is great, then marketing will be easier” The truth is, marketing is really hard. It takes time to work, it can be hard to know when it is working, and you don’t see instant results so it doesn’t feel very productive. Getting started earlier, and doing a little as you go along is, I think, a much better strategy than waiting till you launch. It gives you time to learn about what works and what doesn’t, it let’s you learn about the process and get better at it, and it gives your marketing time to work. Market the hell out of the app man! EDIT: What I meant to say is that as you put it marketing is very hard (I know, that´s what I do) so don´t narrow it down. Go for it, right now!

philip_roberts 14y ago

Hi everyone, I didn't post this, but I am the author. Thanks for all the kind words on the post. As far as Float goes, it currently only works with www.freeagent.com, so if you are a FreeAgent user, feel free to sign up. I am (as we speak) working on integration with www.xero.com, and there's more detail on that here if you want to try the beta: http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero. All thoughts and feedback on either the post of the product are more than welcome :) Thanks! Phil

kfk 14y ago
Hi Phil, I am probably in a position similar to yours 2 years ago: I am working and learning to code on the side. Could I ask you how did you get the integration with xero and freeagent? I am working on an app too (vendors and orders management) and I keep wondering how to reach out potential customers.
- philip_roberts 14y ago
  We are listed here: http://www.freeagent.com/developers/goodies http://www.freeagent.com/developers/goodies which drives some traffic our way. FreeAgent and our customers have mentioned us on twitter/blogged about us sporadically over the last couple of years. Don't just wait. We are still working on our Xero integration (I only really started on it last week), and I stuck up http://floatapp.com/xero http://floatapp.com/xero so we could collect emails of people who wanted to try the beta, and we've got ~70 replies (mostly from accountants) by sharing it on twitter/facebook/linked in/Xero's support forums.