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Firey take, but health insurers are not the problem they are made out to be. They're on your team and benefit from lower prices just as much as you do. They don

Firey take, but health insurers are not the problem they are made out to be. They're on your team and benefit from lower prices just as much as you do. They don't make any money either, don't argue with me, buy their stocks if you are so convinced and see how that goes over. Health care providers carry immense blame. It's full of passionless people in it for the outsized paychecks, who once inside will just seek whatever local minimum to stay employed.

niij 8mo ago
Insurers are only allowed to keep a % as profits. Higher spending increases the absolute amount of profit that can be retained.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
DangitBobby 8mo ago
They add an entire layer of make work and waste just for existing.
soared 8mo ago
[flagged]
- WarmWash 8mo ago
  Exactly, ask anyone in a job for the money how their week was. Not saying nursing is stress free, or every nurse is bad, but like tech companies in 2021, it's full of directionless people who pushed through the cert program to get paid $50/hr with $100/hr weekend shifts and be disgruntled with you that you are making them do work.
  - shigawire 8mo ago
    The disillusionment comes from hospital admins constantly squeezing blood from a stone. Patient populations are up, nursing FTEs down. Support staff down.
    - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
      And those Admin Idiots never cut staff in Admin, it's always the Nurses and Doctors who get the pressure
  - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
    What an arrogant comment. Nursing is one of the most physically and mentally demanding jobs I know of, at least in Germany. And I bet 80% of the Techbros here wouldn't last a month in it, given how many lost their minds over a simple RTO-Mandate. Maybe watch the movie "Late Shift" to get an idea of how a Workday is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7o-omvW_DI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7o-omvW_DI I doubt that "directionless" people would put up with those working conditions, and many leave the sector after a few years, simply because they burn out. Nearly no one works 100% long-term, just because it's too much too.
    - WarmWash 8mo ago
      Perhaps unlike Germany, in the US, people in those positions will not be able to come close to earning what they earn if they leave. Probably only half at best. A medical cert doesn't translate to much else besides the cert. So like you mentioned, it's very difficult and grueling work, and people (in the US at least) get trapped because of the money. Passionless souls doing something they hate because they'll lose their upscale home and Mercedes if they quit.
      - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
        I doubt that they hate what they do, it's just the shitty working conditions that render you unempathic and cynical. Most of them care very much about what they do, and give everything they can for the patients. Otherwise they would have quit a long time ago. (I've had to do a 3-month nursing internship as part of my medical studies, it's mandatory in Germany) Better staffing makes a day and night difference. I've experienced it first-hand as a doctor. The more overworked you are, the more cynical and unempathic you get. After a weekend or some time off, it's already much better In other countries with better staffing (Switzerland or Austria), it's a also very noticeable how much better the mood and morale is of the staff. Nurses in Germany could never afford a Mercedes or an upscale home, but they would also probably make less, switching jobs. It's not that they don't love their job, they just can't take it anymore. You also rarely see old nurses for that reason.
        8mo ago
- IdiocyInAction 8mo ago
  Nurses in the US are actually very highly paid. Ask anyone how their week was. They'll all say it was crap.
bsjshshsb 8mo ago
[flagged]
crazygringo 8mo ago
> health insurers...'re on your team and benefit from lower prices just as much as you do You're missing a very, very, very important piece here. Which is that the lowest price of all is to deny treatment entirely. They are not on your team, they are the opposite team. Their revenue is basically fixed, at the level of your premiums. But the more health care they pay for you to receive, the less profit they make. That's just arithmetic. This is why there are so many horror stories of people being denied necessary treatment, or having to fight for months and years to get their treatment actually paid for. Insurance providers are incentivized to do their absolute best at taking your money and then not paying for care, through every sort of technicality and "mistake" and arbitrary judgment and limit they can come up with.
- nradov 8mo ago
  No, that's not how it works. Due to the ACA minimum medical loss ratio, most health plans have no direct financial incentive to deny treatment.
  - Spivak 8mo ago
    It's nice to know they do it just for the love of the game.
    - nradov 8mo ago
      Mostly they do it because their customers (employers that sponsor health plans) ask them to in order to hold down costs.
  - crazygringo 8mo ago
    They still do, because that's a minimum. If they have to spend 80% of premiums on medical care, then they make a lot more profit by spending just that mandated 80%, as opposed to 85% or 90%. Which they can achieve by denying claims. That's the direct financial incentive.
    - nradov 8mo ago
vkou 8mo ago
If health insurers are on my team why do they blatantly lie about their network coverage to me? Why do they list providers as in-network, when the providers consider themselves out of network? Why aren't the executives of these insurers shilling ghost networks not in prison for mail fraud?
unclad5968 8mo ago
Having worked in medicine, I agree about providers. People who probably got in it to help people burn out immediately and become like the rest of us looking for the best paycheck with a tolerable workplace. Insurance companies make plenty of money though. Cigna makes $7-8B per year and pays a decent dividend.
- WarmWash 8mo ago
  They pay a 2% dividend and the stock is up 10% in 5 years. That's a D tier stock.
  - unclad5968 8mo ago
    I don't think how it relates to other stocks is meaningful to the question of whether or not insurance companies make money.

niij 8mo ago

Insurers are only allowed to keep a % as profits. Higher spending increases the absolute amount of profit that can be retained.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

DangitBobby 8mo ago

They add an entire layer of make work and waste just for existing.

soared 8mo ago

[flagged]

WarmWash 8mo ago
Exactly, ask anyone in a job for the money how their week was. Not saying nursing is stress free, or every nurse is bad, but like tech companies in 2021, it's full of directionless people who pushed through the cert program to get paid $50/hr with $100/hr weekend shifts and be disgruntled with you that you are making them do work.
- shigawire 8mo ago
  The disillusionment comes from hospital admins constantly squeezing blood from a stone. Patient populations are up, nursing FTEs down. Support staff down.
  - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
    And those Admin Idiots never cut staff in Admin, it's always the Nurses and Doctors who get the pressure
- hermanzegerman 8mo ago
  What an arrogant comment. Nursing is one of the most physically and mentally demanding jobs I know of, at least in Germany. And I bet 80% of the Techbros here wouldn't last a month in it, given how many lost their minds over a simple RTO-Mandate. Maybe watch the movie "Late Shift" to get an idea of how a Workday is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7o-omvW_DI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7o-omvW_DI I doubt that "directionless" people would put up with those working conditions, and many leave the sector after a few years, simply because they burn out. Nearly no one works 100% long-term, just because it's too much too.
  - WarmWash 8mo ago
    Perhaps unlike Germany, in the US, people in those positions will not be able to come close to earning what they earn if they leave. Probably only half at best. A medical cert doesn't translate to much else besides the cert. So like you mentioned, it's very difficult and grueling work, and people (in the US at least) get trapped because of the money. Passionless souls doing something they hate because they'll lose their upscale home and Mercedes if they quit.
    - hermanzegerman 8mo ago
      I doubt that they hate what they do, it's just the shitty working conditions that render you unempathic and cynical. Most of them care very much about what they do, and give everything they can for the patients. Otherwise they would have quit a long time ago. (I've had to do a 3-month nursing internship as part of my medical studies, it's mandatory in Germany) Better staffing makes a day and night difference. I've experienced it first-hand as a doctor. The more overworked you are, the more cynical and unempathic you get. After a weekend or some time off, it's already much better In other countries with better staffing (Switzerland or Austria), it's a also very noticeable how much better the mood and morale is of the staff. Nurses in Germany could never afford a Mercedes or an upscale home, but they would also probably make less, switching jobs. It's not that they don't love their job, they just can't take it anymore. You also rarely see old nurses for that reason.
      - 8mo ago
IdiocyInAction 8mo ago
Nurses in the US are actually very highly paid. Ask anyone how their week was. They'll all say it was crap.

bsjshshsb 8mo ago

[flagged]

crazygringo 8mo ago

> health insurers...'re on your team and benefit from lower prices just as much as you do You're missing a very, very, very important piece here. Which is that the lowest price of all is to deny treatment entirely. They are not on your team, they are the opposite team. Their revenue is basically fixed, at the level of your premiums. But the more health care they pay for you to receive, the less profit they make. That's just arithmetic. This is why there are so many horror stories of people being denied necessary treatment, or having to fight for months and years to get their treatment actually paid for. Insurance providers are incentivized to do their absolute best at taking your money and then not paying for care, through every sort of technicality and "mistake" and arbitrary judgment and limit they can come up with.

nradov 8mo ago
No, that's not how it works. Due to the ACA minimum medical loss ratio, most health plans have no direct financial incentive to deny treatment.
- Spivak 8mo ago
  It's nice to know they do it just for the love of the game.
  - nradov 8mo ago
    Mostly they do it because their customers (employers that sponsor health plans) ask them to in order to hold down costs.
- crazygringo 8mo ago
  They still do, because that's a minimum. If they have to spend 80% of premiums on medical care, then they make a lot more profit by spending just that mandated 80%, as opposed to 85% or 90%. Which they can achieve by denying claims. That's the direct financial incentive.
  - nradov 8mo ago

vkou 8mo ago

If health insurers are on my team why do they blatantly lie about their network coverage to me? Why do they list providers as in-network, when the providers consider themselves out of network? Why aren't the executives of these insurers shilling ghost networks not in prison for mail fraud?

unclad5968 8mo ago

Having worked in medicine, I agree about providers. People who probably got in it to help people burn out immediately and become like the rest of us looking for the best paycheck with a tolerable workplace. Insurance companies make plenty of money though. Cigna makes $7-8B per year and pays a decent dividend.

WarmWash 8mo ago
They pay a 2% dividend and the stock is up 10% in 5 years. That's a D tier stock.
- unclad5968 8mo ago
  I don't think how it relates to other stocks is meaningful to the question of whether or not insurance companies make money.