4 ms·

"Communism can never work," says leader of country that routinely sabotages or outright overthrows communist governments.

by bitwize 7mo ago

rayiner 7mo ago
How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? The U.S. simply prevents capitalistic American companies from doing business with Cuba. Regardless, the fact that communism doesn't work was proven decades ago by China's shift to authoritarian state-managed capitalism. Singapore, South Korea, and, ironically, Vietnam are other examples that show that model works really well at pulling third-world countries out of poverty.
- craftkiller 7mo ago
  > How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? The U.S. simply prevents capitalistic American companies from doing business with Cuba. It is not just American companies. It is a blockade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Cuban_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Cuban_crisis
  - rayiner 7mo ago
    You're pointing to the blockade of Venezuelan oil which just started. How does that explain the failure of Cuba to develop for the six decades before that?
    - MattDamonSpace 7mo ago
      Could you imagine Cuba with the per capita GDP of Florida? Geopolitical and sovereignty awkwardness aside (big aside I know)…. it’s obvious Cuba, and especially the average Cuban, would benefit immensely from the island becoming a US state, no?
      - xp84 7mo ago
        In an alternate universe, instead of the Castro 1959 takeover, a pro-US faction took over and requested annexation, and was accepted, since 1950s Americans all would have thought it was cool to have another cool tropical island paradise state. The Hawaii of the east coast! If anyone thinks Cuba is better off in any metric now than they would have been in that alternate reality, I’d love to hear why.
        disgruntledphd2 7mo ago
        > If anyone thinks Cuba is better off in any metric now than they would have been in that alternate reality, I’d love to hear why. I mean, pre-Castro Cuba was basically a playground for the US rich. Like, the whole revolution was about kicking those people out. Personally, I think that's morally justified, but I don't agree that what the US has done to them since then is morally justified. Obviously people differ on their opinions of this stuff, but collective punishment (which is what the US embargoes are) is generally regarded as a war crime.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        > Obviously people differ on their opinions of this stuff, but collective punishment (which is what the US embargoes are) is generally regarded as a war crime The definitions really keep mutating on the left don’t they. Economic sanctions are a “war crime,” “silence is violence,” etc.
        cherry_tree 7mo ago
        > 2019, the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute adopted an amendment to the definition of war crimes applicable in NIAC detailed in article 8(2)(e). The new article (8(2)(e)(xix) prohibits the intentional use of starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including the deliberate prevention of relief. Fuel for cooking food and providing heat is necessary for survival; deliberate prevention of this aid from reaching Cuba is a war crime.
        disgruntledphd2 7mo ago
    - craftkiller 7mo ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... > companies that do business with the U.S. which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of U.S. sanctions. The U.S. has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba. > The U.S. government has pursued extraterritorial measures to enforce its embargo. Cuban ambassador Ricardo Alarcón cited 27 recent cases of trade contracts interrupted by U.S. pressure to the U.N. in 1991. British Petroleum was seemingly dissuaded by U.S. authorities from investing in offshore oil exploration in Cuba despite initially expressing interest. In 1992, the U.S. State Department discouraged firms like Royal Dutch Shell and Clyde Petroleum from investing in Cuba.
    - cherry_tree 7mo ago
      From “how is the us sabotaging Cuba?” To “but that just started” in one message. Fantastic stuff, hope you didn’t pay much for that law degree.
      - rayiner 7mo ago
        In law school, we learn that context is important! OP said: “‘Communism can never work,’ says leader of country that routinely sabotages or outright overthrows communist governments.” It’s not like Cuba was working great until February 2026.
        cherry_tree 7mo ago
        The context being that you _knew_ the US is sabotaging Cuba right now, but still acted as if it was an outlandish assertion. It shows you are presenting arguments in bad faith.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        What’s bad faith is trying to wave away Cuba’s failure since 1959 by pointing at something Trump did last month.
        TimorousBestie 7mo ago
        If that’s your real objection, you’re responding to the wrong commenter. What you’ve written is not a position they have advanced here.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        Which poster are you talking about? The original post from which this stemmed, which I was responding to, was about whether communism ever worked. Insofar as Cuba is a poster child for communism not working, it’s not because of anything Trump did in 2026.
      - oa335 7mo ago
- skeledrew 7mo ago
  > How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? Is this for real? There has been a blockade on Cuba for decades. Any country that wants to do business with them is threatened, implicitly or explicitly. Look at how Venezuela, their primary supplier of oil, was recently invaded and taken over, and the shipments stopped.
  - rayiner 7mo ago
    There has not a “blockade on Cuba for decades.” Cuba’s largest trading partners are China, Germany, and Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba.
- TheAlchemist 7mo ago
  Is this a serious question ? Read this first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... Recently, the U.S. decided that Cuba can no longer import any oil, and they are enforcing that. Is this a surprise that the grid collapses in those circumstances ? Communism is bad (I'm from Eastern Europe...), but this collapse has nothing to do with communism. It has everything to do, with the U.S. deciding unilaterally that Cuba needs to fall.
sQL_inject 7mo ago
"The main responsibility of every Soviet citizen was to facilitate the arrival of Communism, where people would contribute to society according to their abilities, and receive from society according to their needs -- has there ever been a nobler sounding goal? And yet historians cannot agree on an estimate of many millions of people were starved to death, tortured to death, or worked to death, all in the name of that goal."
- PickledHotdog 7mo ago
  And yet millions of people starve, are tortured and are worked to death in the name of Capitalism. How many die or are made destitute due to lack of affordable healthcare in the US alone? Not to mention the trillions of dollars (and lives) given up in the pursuit of halting what we're told is a fragile, prone-to-collapse form of government for a hundred years now. Strange that.
  - 9864247888754 7mo ago
    [flagged]
  - sQL_inject 7mo ago
    I'm not sure where or by whom you you were told it's a fragile, prone-to-collapse form of government, but I wasn't. Communism has a stranglehold on the societies it spawns within because the elite keep it that way. Show me a country that espouses true Communist principles and I'll show you ten successful Capitalist ones. Don't confuse corporatism with capitalism, the latter which is the free exchange of ideas and goods mutually beneficial to both parties in an open market. The US's enemies keep Cuba on life support for one reason. Work a day in the gulag for your pithy apple ration and you'll be begging to sit in an air conditioned office and choose from ten apple varieties at different prices at your local Corporate Grocer.
    - mindslight 7mo ago
      > I'll show you ten successful Capitalist ones Could you please list these ten countries even if I cannot show you a country that espouses true Communist principles? Please do keep in mind though: > Don't confuse corporatism with capitalism, the latter which is the free exchange of ideas and goods mutually beneficial to both parties in an open market. Directly stated: the problem I see is that term Capitalism is basically used as a Motte and Bailey. It seems to be the least worst option, and it certainly has benefited us greatly. But that doesn't mean it should escape criticism - especially as it lists further and further into what you're calling "corporatism"

"Communism can never work," says leader of country that routinely sabotages or outright overthrows communist governments.

by bitwize 7mo ago

"Communism can never work," says leader of country that routinely sabotages or outright overthrows communist governments.

rayiner 7mo ago

How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? The U.S. simply prevents capitalistic American companies from doing business with Cuba. Regardless, the fact that communism doesn't work was proven decades ago by China's shift to authoritarian state-managed capitalism. Singapore, South Korea, and, ironically, Vietnam are other examples that show that model works really well at pulling third-world countries out of poverty.

craftkiller 7mo ago
> How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? The U.S. simply prevents capitalistic American companies from doing business with Cuba. It is not just American companies. It is a blockade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Cuban_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Cuban_crisis
- rayiner 7mo ago
  You're pointing to the blockade of Venezuelan oil which just started. How does that explain the failure of Cuba to develop for the six decades before that?
  - MattDamonSpace 7mo ago
    Could you imagine Cuba with the per capita GDP of Florida? Geopolitical and sovereignty awkwardness aside (big aside I know)…. it’s obvious Cuba, and especially the average Cuban, would benefit immensely from the island becoming a US state, no?
    - xp84 7mo ago
      In an alternate universe, instead of the Castro 1959 takeover, a pro-US faction took over and requested annexation, and was accepted, since 1950s Americans all would have thought it was cool to have another cool tropical island paradise state. The Hawaii of the east coast! If anyone thinks Cuba is better off in any metric now than they would have been in that alternate reality, I’d love to hear why.
      - disgruntledphd2 7mo ago
        > If anyone thinks Cuba is better off in any metric now than they would have been in that alternate reality, I’d love to hear why. I mean, pre-Castro Cuba was basically a playground for the US rich. Like, the whole revolution was about kicking those people out. Personally, I think that's morally justified, but I don't agree that what the US has done to them since then is morally justified. Obviously people differ on their opinions of this stuff, but collective punishment (which is what the US embargoes are) is generally regarded as a war crime.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        > Obviously people differ on their opinions of this stuff, but collective punishment (which is what the US embargoes are) is generally regarded as a war crime The definitions really keep mutating on the left don’t they. Economic sanctions are a “war crime,” “silence is violence,” etc.
        cherry_tree 7mo ago
        > 2019, the Assembly of States Parties to the Rome Statute adopted an amendment to the definition of war crimes applicable in NIAC detailed in article 8(2)(e). The new article (8(2)(e)(xix) prohibits the intentional use of starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including the deliberate prevention of relief. Fuel for cooking food and providing heat is necessary for survival; deliberate prevention of this aid from reaching Cuba is a war crime.
        disgruntledphd2 7mo ago
  - craftkiller 7mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... > companies that do business with the U.S. which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of U.S. sanctions. The U.S. has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba. > The U.S. government has pursued extraterritorial measures to enforce its embargo. Cuban ambassador Ricardo Alarcón cited 27 recent cases of trade contracts interrupted by U.S. pressure to the U.N. in 1991. British Petroleum was seemingly dissuaded by U.S. authorities from investing in offshore oil exploration in Cuba despite initially expressing interest. In 1992, the U.S. State Department discouraged firms like Royal Dutch Shell and Clyde Petroleum from investing in Cuba.
  - cherry_tree 7mo ago
    From “how is the us sabotaging Cuba?” To “but that just started” in one message. Fantastic stuff, hope you didn’t pay much for that law degree.
    - rayiner 7mo ago
      In law school, we learn that context is important! OP said: “‘Communism can never work,’ says leader of country that routinely sabotages or outright overthrows communist governments.” It’s not like Cuba was working great until February 2026.
      - cherry_tree 7mo ago
        The context being that you _knew_ the US is sabotaging Cuba right now, but still acted as if it was an outlandish assertion. It shows you are presenting arguments in bad faith.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        What’s bad faith is trying to wave away Cuba’s failure since 1959 by pointing at something Trump did last month.
        TimorousBestie 7mo ago
        If that’s your real objection, you’re responding to the wrong commenter. What you’ve written is not a position they have advanced here.
        rayiner 7mo ago
        Which poster are you talking about? The original post from which this stemmed, which I was responding to, was about whether communism ever worked. Insofar as Cuba is a poster child for communism not working, it’s not because of anything Trump did in 2026.
    - oa335 7mo ago
skeledrew 7mo ago
> How is the U.S. "sabotaging" Cuba? Is this for real? There has been a blockade on Cuba for decades. Any country that wants to do business with them is threatened, implicitly or explicitly. Look at how Venezuela, their primary supplier of oil, was recently invaded and taken over, and the shipments stopped.
- rayiner 7mo ago
  There has not a “blockade on Cuba for decades.” Cuba’s largest trading partners are China, Germany, and Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba.
TheAlchemist 7mo ago
Is this a serious question ? Read this first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_... Recently, the U.S. decided that Cuba can no longer import any oil, and they are enforcing that. Is this a surprise that the grid collapses in those circumstances ? Communism is bad (I'm from Eastern Europe...), but this collapse has nothing to do with communism. It has everything to do, with the U.S. deciding unilaterally that Cuba needs to fall.

sQL_inject 7mo ago

"The main responsibility of every Soviet citizen was to facilitate the arrival of Communism, where people would contribute to society according to their abilities, and receive from society according to their needs -- has there ever been a nobler sounding goal? And yet historians cannot agree on an estimate of many millions of people were starved to death, tortured to death, or worked to death, all in the name of that goal."

PickledHotdog 7mo ago
And yet millions of people starve, are tortured and are worked to death in the name of Capitalism. How many die or are made destitute due to lack of affordable healthcare in the US alone? Not to mention the trillions of dollars (and lives) given up in the pursuit of halting what we're told is a fragile, prone-to-collapse form of government for a hundred years now. Strange that.
- 9864247888754 7mo ago
  [flagged]
- sQL_inject 7mo ago
  I'm not sure where or by whom you you were told it's a fragile, prone-to-collapse form of government, but I wasn't. Communism has a stranglehold on the societies it spawns within because the elite keep it that way. Show me a country that espouses true Communist principles and I'll show you ten successful Capitalist ones. Don't confuse corporatism with capitalism, the latter which is the free exchange of ideas and goods mutually beneficial to both parties in an open market. The US's enemies keep Cuba on life support for one reason. Work a day in the gulag for your pithy apple ration and you'll be begging to sit in an air conditioned office and choose from ten apple varieties at different prices at your local Corporate Grocer.
  - mindslight 7mo ago
    > I'll show you ten successful Capitalist ones Could you please list these ten countries even if I cannot show you a country that espouses true Communist principles? Please do keep in mind though: > Don't confuse corporatism with capitalism, the latter which is the free exchange of ideas and goods mutually beneficial to both parties in an open market. Directly stated: the problem I see is that term Capitalism is basically used as a Motte and Bailey. It seems to be the least worst option, and it certainly has benefited us greatly. But that doesn't mean it should escape criticism - especially as it lists further and further into what you're calling "corporatism"