4 ms·

Big corporations have found the way to make us work for free in their own terms. The balance of power between the working class and capital is totally broken.

by Frieren 7mo ago

Big corporations have found the way to make us work for free in their own terms. The balance of power between the working class and capital is totally broken. And for me it is not just the lack of transparency. It is the power balance. I should not need to work for free, give my data, and god knows what to play a game. I should not be living knowing that I am being exploited at each interaction with software. Transparency is good, but not enough. "Click here to accept" and thousands of lines of legalese do not create a fair society.

gjsman-1000 7mo ago
> I should not need to work for free, give my data, and god knows what to play a game. The game is free, with doing so being the price. If you don't like that price, you can always pay $80 for a traditional Pokemon game. As such, I don't get the handwringing. There is no such thing as a free lunch and never will be.
- ses1984 7mo ago
  Is there an $80 Pokémon game where walking outside is a core mechanic and that facilitates interaction with a huge network of users?
  - Brainspackle 7mo ago
    Take a walk while you play your switch
    - collingreen 7mo ago
      "We've got pokemon go at home!"
  - gs17 7mo ago
    A long time ago they had the games that came with a "Pokéwalker", which was a pedometer that acted as a sort of mini-game, but that's the closest they got to a mainstream game where you have to get off the couch. It almost meets your specification (well, did, I'm sure the internet part is offline so you're not connected anymore), but it's obviously not exactly what you meant.
  - ternus 7mo ago
    You might be surprised. Various games have come with both. One iteration (the 3DS remake of Gold/Silver) even came with a pedometer that allowed you to level up by walking around: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9walker https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9walker Nintendo's StreetPass tech may also qualify: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/StreetPass https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/StreetPass
throwaway27448 7mo ago
The americans who believed anti-communist propaganda might have been the dumbest generation in history: they gave up a decent democracy with actual democratic say in how society is run in order to fear the world comfortably from home.
- FrustratedMonky 7mo ago
  For Maga, democracy is too socialist. LOL: Remember when they literally said the Pope wasn't Christian enough.
  - FrustratedMonky 7mo ago
    Maga, all butt hurt with the slow, creeping realization, that they are the baddies. Before: "Freeeeeeddommm of Speech". Now: "News outlets must follow admin talking points or be hung for treason" We'll solve that buy just buying them out.
- penguin_booze 7mo ago
  You reckon subsequent generations improved? Hint: look around and see what's happening, and how that came about.
charcircuit 7mo ago
You don't need to work and if you do you get rewarded in the game. Money is not the only motivating factor for people. Even something like keeping Google Map up to date can bring value to people from helping others. Helping others is not zero sum. Just because a company benefits from helping others that doesn't mean it's bad.
- teeray 7mo ago
  It’s the lack of transparency that is the problem. There should be a clear labor exchange disclaimer: “we are asking you to do X minutes of AI training for one unit of in-game reward.” What people take issue with is Tom Sawyer tricking people into whitewashing a fence.
- mapkkk 7mo ago
  You're right in that money is not the only motivator for people. I would also argue that if you told them the _real_ reason, aka your own actual motivation behind the offer, the number of people who would actually be "playing" would be much lower. I would be motivated to collect free data if it meant I was helping save lives, with that help not being behind a paywall. I would be motivated to play a free game with ads just for the fun of it. I would not be motivated to play a free game just for the fun of it if my playing of the game was furthering some faceless corporation's profit motives. In fact, in that last scenario, I would feel tricked, and it would take a non-trivial amount of money for me to not feel that way.
  - tartoran 7mo ago
    Same thing with social media. If they clearly disclosed that the more time they spend glued to their apps the more money the company makes the majority would be turned off.
aleph_minus_one 7mo ago
> Big corporations have found the way to make us work for free in their own terms. The balance of power between the working class and capital is totally broken. > And for me it is not just the lack of transparency. It is the power balance. I should not need to work for free, give my data, and god knows what to play a game. If you have such a (legitimate) stance, why don't you delete Pokémon Go (and Ingress) as fast as possible from your mobile phone and encourage other people to do the same? It was obvious from begin that the whole purpose of the game was that naive players are to take pictures of objects that are of interest to Niantic for free. The "payment" is a short dosis of dopamine high. A lot of players seemed to be perfectly fine with this kind of "payment".
- Frieren 7mo ago
  > If you have such a (legitimate) stance, why don't you delete Pokémon Go (and Ingress) as fast as possible from your mobile phone and encourage other people to do the same? I'm encouraging people to regulate big corporations. Fighting individually against corporations larger than countries makes no logical sense. What you are asking me is to follow a losing strategy. > It was obvious from begin that the whole purpose of the game was that naive players are to take pictures of objects that are of interest to Niantic for free. Even if a scam is obvious, it is still a scam and needs to be stop by the rule of law.

by Frieren 7mo ago

gjsman-1000 7mo ago

> I should not need to work for free, give my data, and god knows what to play a game. The game is free, with doing so being the price. If you don't like that price, you can always pay $80 for a traditional Pokemon game. As such, I don't get the handwringing. There is no such thing as a free lunch and never will be.

ses1984 7mo ago
Is there an $80 Pokémon game where walking outside is a core mechanic and that facilitates interaction with a huge network of users?
- Brainspackle 7mo ago
  Take a walk while you play your switch
  - collingreen 7mo ago
    "We've got pokemon go at home!"
- gs17 7mo ago
  A long time ago they had the games that came with a "Pokéwalker", which was a pedometer that acted as a sort of mini-game, but that's the closest they got to a mainstream game where you have to get off the couch. It almost meets your specification (well, did, I'm sure the internet part is offline so you're not connected anymore), but it's obviously not exactly what you meant.
- ternus 7mo ago
  You might be surprised. Various games have come with both. One iteration (the 3DS remake of Gold/Silver) even came with a pedometer that allowed you to level up by walking around: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9walker https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9walker Nintendo's StreetPass tech may also qualify: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/StreetPass https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/StreetPass

throwaway27448 7mo ago

The americans who believed anti-communist propaganda might have been the dumbest generation in history: they gave up a decent democracy with actual democratic say in how society is run in order to fear the world comfortably from home.

FrustratedMonky 7mo ago
For Maga, democracy is too socialist. LOL: Remember when they literally said the Pope wasn't Christian enough.
- FrustratedMonky 7mo ago
  Maga, all butt hurt with the slow, creeping realization, that they are the baddies. Before: "Freeeeeeddommm of Speech". Now: "News outlets must follow admin talking points or be hung for treason" We'll solve that buy just buying them out.
penguin_booze 7mo ago
You reckon subsequent generations improved? Hint: look around and see what's happening, and how that came about.

charcircuit 7mo ago

You don't need to work and if you do you get rewarded in the game. Money is not the only motivating factor for people. Even something like keeping Google Map up to date can bring value to people from helping others. Helping others is not zero sum. Just because a company benefits from helping others that doesn't mean it's bad.

teeray 7mo ago
It’s the lack of transparency that is the problem. There should be a clear labor exchange disclaimer: “we are asking you to do X minutes of AI training for one unit of in-game reward.” What people take issue with is Tom Sawyer tricking people into whitewashing a fence.
mapkkk 7mo ago
You're right in that money is not the only motivator for people. I would also argue that if you told them the _real_ reason, aka your own actual motivation behind the offer, the number of people who would actually be "playing" would be much lower. I would be motivated to collect free data if it meant I was helping save lives, with that help not being behind a paywall. I would be motivated to play a free game with ads just for the fun of it. I would not be motivated to play a free game just for the fun of it if my playing of the game was furthering some faceless corporation's profit motives. In fact, in that last scenario, I would feel tricked, and it would take a non-trivial amount of money for me to not feel that way.
- tartoran 7mo ago
  Same thing with social media. If they clearly disclosed that the more time they spend glued to their apps the more money the company makes the majority would be turned off.

aleph_minus_one 7mo ago

> Big corporations have found the way to make us work for free in their own terms. The balance of power between the working class and capital is totally broken. > And for me it is not just the lack of transparency. It is the power balance. I should not need to work for free, give my data, and god knows what to play a game. If you have such a (legitimate) stance, why don't you delete Pokémon Go (and Ingress) as fast as possible from your mobile phone and encourage other people to do the same? It was obvious from begin that the whole purpose of the game was that naive players are to take pictures of objects that are of interest to Niantic for free. The "payment" is a short dosis of dopamine high. A lot of players seemed to be perfectly fine with this kind of "payment".

Frieren 7mo ago
> If you have such a (legitimate) stance, why don't you delete Pokémon Go (and Ingress) as fast as possible from your mobile phone and encourage other people to do the same? I'm encouraging people to regulate big corporations. Fighting individually against corporations larger than countries makes no logical sense. What you are asking me is to follow a losing strategy. > It was obvious from begin that the whole purpose of the game was that naive players are to take pictures of objects that are of interest to Niantic for free. Even if a scam is obvious, it is still a scam and needs to be stop by the rule of law.